Action Network & Action Builder with Martha Grant
Martha Grant, Director of Product Strategy at Action Network and Action Builder, joins the show to talk about her path from campaign data apprentice to leading product for two of the labor and progressive movement's key organizing tools. She traces her start at an NOI (now Repower) data boot camp, five years doing data and tech work at AFSCME, and how that experience shaped her approach to building Action Builder in partnership with the AFL-CIO.
Martha breaks down the difference between the two tool sets: Action Network is a digital mobilization platform built for large-scale distributed actions and easy petition/email signups, while Action Builder is an organizing and relationship-tracking tool built around the "wall chart" concept familiar to labor organizers — a person-centered, color-coded way of visualizing where leaders, supporters, and undecideds stand across a campaign. She explains how the tool links user accounts directly to the people records organizers manage, keeps a free-form note on every contact, and is flexible enough to be repurposed for power-mapping employers, legislators, or other targets rather than just individual organizers.
The conversation also covers accessibility and pricing (free for AFL-CIO affiliates, sliding-scale pricing for other organizations, and always-free activist accounts), stories of small community groups moving from paper post-it maps to digital dashboards, and an upcoming "activity stream" feature for tracking campaign activity in real time. Martha closes with a reflection on staying hopeful and grounded in the day-to-day work of organizing, even amid difficult political news cycles.
Where to learn more: actionnetwork.org and actionbuilder.org
SHOW NOTES
There were a few list serves that Martha mentioned at the top of the show, I’ve linked to them below, you may need to request access to enter them.
re:Power: New name with a long legacy, repower was previously Wellstone Action and absorbed into Wellstone Action was NOI (new organizing institute). Repower has a lot of great trainings and resources and Martha mentioned some of their data trainings as how she got started in data (back when it was under NOI).
Action Builder: Action builder was the toolset that Martha was talking about that was more about mapping relationships or could even potentially be used for power mapping.
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Benn Marine 0:17
This week I have Martha Grant from Action Builder and Active Network. Speaking with us a little bit about what it means to get started and work in data within organizing, talk about some of the really cool tools that Action Builder and Active Network can find and build to make data more accessible to organizers. Really excited to go to some of you all. I'm curious what got you into kind of organizing and this whole space?
Martha Grant 0:55
Yeah, so you know, I grew up in Minnesota and I was a little political nerd. Um in eighth grade, I had this ginormous folder where I would like print out transcripts of the 2000 debates and was like tracking all of the electoral college votes the night of the 2000 election and then got really into West Ritwing after the horror horrifying Supreme Court decision. Um but uh what really sort of like solidified, like, oh, I want to work in progressive politics the rest of my life was when Paul Willstone died um when I was 15. And the night of his plane crash, I um insisted my parents drive me down to the state capitol where there was a big memorial service. And it was just thousands of people like heartbroken that this progressive champion, our progressive champion had died. And that was where these incredible community leaders like stood up and said, you know, we've lost this wonderful person who did so much for us, um, and did so much for the community, but it's up to us to carry, carry on his legacy. Um, and the sort of like all the buttons and things coming out of that moment said, stand up, keep fighting. And it just sort of like, but that night, like holding a candle, and people are passing around Kleenex, and it was just this huge community gathering of like, if we want a progressive future, it's up to all of us to build it. And I was just like, oh, that's what I gotta do, work for progressive change. Um, and so I volunteered on campaigns and and other things during college, um, and then bounced between nonprofits and campaigns out of school. Um and uh in 2010, I was working on a congressional uh uh I thought it was actually the gubernatorial as a coordinated campaign here in Minnesota um for a hot minute. And my regional field director said, Oh, you have a knack for data. Like maybe you should think about that. Um, and after that campaign, I went and worked for a nonprofit. Um, but in 2012, when I was like, oh, gotta work on the election again, I went to an NOI data boot camp and was just fucked. I was like, I want to be able to support organizers in the field doing their work, and I have a knack for spreadsheets and really enjoy spreadsheets, so that's what I'm going to do. And I was uh hired by ACME, the American Federation of State County Municipal Employees out of that boot camp and was an apprentice for them, and then stayed on for five years doing data um and tech work, helping support political organizers and labor organizers, and fell in love with labor organizing and the work that labor does to support working people.
Benn Marine 3:52
That's awesome. And and so I'm curious, what was that journey like kind of transitioning? I mean, still obviously under the organizing umbrella, but getting into data, like I'm thinking about if there are folks that are listening who are like, oh man, like I would love to to learn more about or be more involved with data, but it seems you know a little scary or intimidating. Do you have any advice for those folks on kind of how to get their feet wet and maybe dive more into it?
Martha Grant 4:18
Yeah, I mean, I would say like don't be afraid to just dive in. Um there's uh an awesome listserv that I co-moderate um called uh the Data Ladies Alliance, open to anyone who identifies as a woman, and then there's progress files, which is open to all, and data diversity, which is an amazing progressive listserv for people of color in the data space. And all of us want more people to join us and are happy to um send around like helpful articles and hook people up with entry-level jobs, and there's some good training programs out there as well. Um, one one great one is um how Repower, formerly Wellstone, does a great data training, I think every year, I think even maybe a couple times a year, um, that I would highly recommend folks check out um to dig in. Um don't be intimidated. Everybody's learning, especially at these trainings, but everybody's always learning in the space. And so uh we welcome questions.
Benn Marine 5:27
That's awesome. And is that um I know you mentioned NOI earlier. I think is NOI also the uh also still under the maybe I think Wellstone might have absorbed them too, right? Is that the same or are they separate?
Martha Grant 5:40
Yeah, that's exactly right. So the the training that Repower now does is essentially the same training, like the same if it's still like the legacy training that I went through. So the NOI data bootcamp became the Wellstone data bootcamp, which is now the Repower data bootcamp.
Benn Marine 5:56
Oh cool. It's so good to know those are still happening because I I remember NOI and and for listeners who weren't from the NOI, it's the or it was the new organizing institute. And I just remember it was like the coolest resource ever. And so it it makes my heart happy that it's still in existence in in some other form now.
Martha Grant 6:14
Yeah, yeah. No, it's a it's a wonderful resource for the community. Um and it's amazing how many people went through those NOI data boot camps. That's how they got their start, and like so many of our our leaders, um, especially like women, people of color, um, who are in senior leadership now, got their start at those NOI boot camps. It's really great.
Benn Marine 6:34
That's awesome. And now, Martha, you're the currently the director of product strategy at the Action Network, is that right?
Martha Grant 6:42
That's right, yeah.
Benn Marine 6:43
Awesome. So tell me or or tell us a little bit about so there's the Action Network, and there's also Action Builder. And I and you guys are friends or under the same umbrella. What what is what are kind of the differences or or tell us a little bit more about those two?
Martha Grant 6:57
Yeah, so Action Network and Action Builder are sister tool sets, and I'm the head of product strategy across both. Um, so we're one organization. Um right now we have a a sort of placeholder name. We're called Action Squares, um, because of two Action Tool sets. Um Action Network is our digital organizing platform. So um math emails and it's got an event tool. So it's like large-scale distributed events like the women's march. That's actually how the Action Network Tool set came to be in 2012, um, there were these uh big Black Friday strikes, um, so picketing outside of Walmart locations. And I actually found when I was interviewing for my initial role with the organization, which is product manager and action builder, um, in 2017, I went back through my Facebook photos and found photos of myself in front of our neighborhood Walmart protesting, and I had found that event online through the Action Network tool set because anyone could organize an event, anyone could organize one of these protests, and they were all over the country. It was this wonderful big distributed mass action. Um there were, I think, a hundred folks at our at our local Walmart protesting. It was it was delightful. So Action Network large scale mobilization tool. And uh one of the like great things about the Action Network tool set is it's made to be very easy from um the experience of your your local activist. So like when you go to actionnetwork.org to sign a petition, um, maybe you see like a link on Facebook and you click on it, your information is saved from the last petition you signed. So when you click on that link, it'll pre-fill a lot of your information, even if that was uh like the other petition that you signed three weeks ago was by a different organization. So we make it like really seamless for people to take those quick mobilization actions. Um, and it's it's delightful. It's also really easy to use from an administrative perspective. Um very clean, simple, straightforward is the goal. So with Action Builder, I was hired to be the product manager on that tool set in 2017 after five years of ACME, where I had gone from being a data and targeting apprentice when I was first hired in 2012, um, to being a sort of senior strategist thinking about the rollout of data and technology to our affiliates and locals, and then focusing like a lot on the 2016 election, of course. So I had filled these notebooks with ideas of how I thought technology could work better for labor organizers, especially, and really wanted to think about like how could we approach technology from a mindset that isn't transactional, but is really focused on that leadership growth, the moment when you see somebody's eyes light up when you're in an organizing campaign where they realize their own power. And I just like I love those moments, and I wanted to like figure out like how could technology facilitate more of those moments, um, and how could we do a better job as a movement of building leaders and really like focus on that? And as I was sort of musing on this and talking to some friends about it in 2017, one friend said, Oh, you know, Action Network is actually looking to build a new organizing tool from scratch through a partnership with AFL CIO. You should see if their like if their product manager job is open. So I applied and four weeks later started, and it's been a wonderful journey where we've built the tool cooperatively with actu uh AFL CIO affiliate and really worked to build a piece of technology that is all about leadership growth and facilitating those moments of people realizing their own power and building shared power together. Um and we can talk more about that. I I know I've just went on a little. Ah, it's just it's such a fun thing. It's been such a fun project to be a part of.
Benn Marine 11:09
Yeah, that sounds amazing. It sounds so cool. And and I I feel like a huge part of organizing is rooted in that relationship building and being able to adequately. And sometimes we updates when you especially when you have to update or software campaigns are very data driven. For me, one of the first tools that I use on the campaign that I use to work with. And I'm curious how does Action Builder because it sounds like of the two tool sets, Action Builder would be the thing that you'd compare against the van. That's right. So it's something entirely different from the van.
Martha Grant 12:12
So I would say it's really different from the van, but like it's definitely you can do a sort of side-by-side comparison. Um the like the Action Network tool set is much more focused on email. So you might compare it to like Falfa or those sorts of email platforms. Um, but Action Builder, um, you know, in Van you would like build a list of people. In Action Builder, you can build a list of people. The big difference in Action Builder that I think really sets it apart from Van is the approach that we took in building it. It was it had to be incredibly user-friendly and it had to really respect the connection you have with a person that you're building up into a leader. So when you log into Action Builder, our sort of principle for the landing page where you land is something that in labor we call a wall chart. Um, are you familiar with wall charts at all, then?
Benn Marine 13:09
Is that kind of like the idea where you would have almost like an organizational chart or more?
Martha Grant 13:15
Yeah, yeah. Okay. No, no, that's so right. So like you're saying you're organizing like 2,000 workers. Um, you'll print out all of their names and like the departments that they work for and tape them on a wall. Um, and so and you'll you'll sort of group them by department, like you wouldn't in an organizational chart, but you'll have this like 2,000 names on a wall, like that takes up a room, right? And um we actually at Ask Me once uh there was a an like an un-air conditioned, like auto like mechanics garage that was rented because it had walls big enough to hold the wall charts. So like you have this massive wall of names, and then you've got sticky dots, like color-coded sticky dots, like red, green, yellow, blue, um, like blue being a leader, you know, red being somebody who's anti-union, stuck upon the walls next to these names. And if you stand in the back of that room, you get this like really strong visualization of where do we stand in this campaign? Do we have enough leaders per department? Are we losing a department? Like, do we have like some really strong anti-union folks there? Like, you just get this really like tactile sense of where the campaign stands and where your leadership growth stands. Yeah, it's like a really, really awesome thing. I've been um hunting down some pictures of the wall charts that are used because like they're just they're amazing. Um, and it's such an effective way of doing organizing and such a different, more more um like uh more one-to-one way of thinking about people that you're organizing. You're not you're not treating these people as numbers, it's like an it's a person and you know what their leadership, like their leadership journey has been, and you know who they are, and you know where they sit in relation to other people. It's just I love I love that aspect of the wall charts.
Benn Marine 15:13
That is so cool. And I'm curious too, if just as like an aside, if you happen to have any wall charts that are you know far enough back that you can't, you know, tell names or things and and you'd be up for, you know, let's throw that on the website for people to check out. That'd be kind of cool. That sounds really amazing.
Martha Grant 15:28
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'll I'll dig through and see if I can find one for you. Um I've been looking for a good one that also, you know, it's always uh you don't want to share for that. Right, right, for sure. Um but uh so sort of like a a distant shot. I'll I'll look for one. So yeah, so the wall chart, so that ended up being our guiding sort of principle, like design for the landing page. So when you log in, you're immediately taken to a list of the people that you're organizing, and the color code is sticky dot, just like you would have on the wall chart, is right next to the person's name and it's like a bright color. So you're like, oh, yeah, Ben is an awesome leader in his community. So I'm totally going to um reach out and see if they're willing to talk to, you know, these other folks um who are on the fence still. So it's just like a really like that guiding principle, I think, has helped us a lot in respecting the organizers' relationships to the people that they're organizing. And then we also link user accounts to people records. So in like three caps, you can give any person in the system access to say everybody in their neighborhood in the that you also have in your database or everybody in their department at their work because we wanted it's all about scale. Like organizers should be having great conversations, building people into leaders, and then empowering those leaders, and that's how we can build the progressive movement at scale. Trusted one-to-one relationships between people and empowering people to own those relationships and to have the conversations about building progressive power, whether that's in that workplace or in their community.
Benn Marine 17:12
That is really cool. So it sounds like does it sync up with like a voter file, or or does it, or can you load a voter file into it? Is that kind of what you're talking about, like being able to like access your neighborhood or or is it a a list that you've built through like canvassing?
Martha Grant 17:27
Yeah, so you can upload a list or you can add people one-to-one. Um, right now we don't have a voter file sync, and we're really focused on sort of how you would build a list in a more organic way. Um so the idea would be that um you would like maybe have an action network event or an action network petition down the road, or you know, on a different platform. And then you'd uh sync that information to Action Builder through an integration. So the Action Builder Action Network integration is one that is going to come come first. Um, and we've made an API accessible so people could build to our API to sync it to other tool sets as well. But the idea would be that somebody has expressed interest in getting involved in your effort and then it would be a record in Action Builder for you to to follow up with.
Benn Marine 18:21
Oh, cool. And how how accessible I so I and and I hate to keep kind of like calling back to the van, but I know one of the the biggest hurdles with the van is for graphics organizers, it's really inaccessible because it's so expensive. What is in terms of accessibility for organizers that get started or or maybe um you know folks that aren't even part of a formal organization but are just organizing within their community? Is there are there ways that people can like try it out and and give it a test drive without financial commitment or also I totally understand if you don't want to go into costs and things. I respect that for sure.
Martha Grant 19:04
No, yeah. I mean, I think it's important. Um one of the big things with us is we're a nonprofit. So um, and so we are not looking out there to make, you know, we're not looking to make a ton of money on this tool. And we've never taken and we never will take venture funding. Like we're not about trying to like milk this for all it's worth by any means. Um the AFL CIO is our founding partner, so all AFL CIO affiliates get it for free.
Benn Marine 19:33
Oh, cool.
Martha Grant 19:34
Um, because of the AFL CIO's yeah, commitment to to building out this tool set. And they actually um we have a development table, we invite other organizations to to sit at that development table. Right now it's just the AFL CIO and their affiliates. Um, but yeah, on a quarterly basis convene, you know, representatives from 15, 20 different unions sit around the table, or uh in many cases call in and talk through like what is our priority for what is going to be built next, and that determines what what is built and when. The price for the rest of the community, we wanted to make it a a sliding scale and B to incentivize that like leadership growth. So for organizations with budgets under a million dollars, it's $35 per organizer lead or admin user account, same price for all three per month. And activist users, which are folks who can go in, add any information to any record they have access to, those user accounts are always free. Um, so it's oh cool.
Benn Marine 20:36
So people can get started without having like a big bank account.
Martha Grant 20:41
Exactly. We still would encourage so like one of the the sort of like great things about the tool, but something that can be um a little less user friendly from an administrator perspective, is we've made the tool hyper flexible. So imagine you know we've got a national union who's using the tool like IBEW. They have a bunch of different types of organizing campaigns that are run around the country. And so we made the tool hyper-flexible so that they could create all of the different data models that they wanted to be able to support those campaigns and turn on and off different fields and responses, our names for like questions and answers across the country, depending on what the campaign needed. So it's really like optimized for like a giant network like camp like organization running a bunch of different campaigns who's doing a lot of things, which isn't to say that a small community group can't use it. Um we've actually got a bunch of small community groups using it effectively around the census right now. It's just that the know that the setup is going to be like a little bit um you're gonna want to be a little bit tech savvy to like sort of figure that out. But we're happy to work with you to make that happen. For organizations with budgets over a million dollars per per year, it's fifty dollars per user per month. So those organizer lead and admin users and of course activists. continue to be always always free.
Benn Marine 22:02
That's amazing. That is really, really great.
Martha Grant 22:04
It's it's been such a fun thing to build this tool and then much more fun even um to be able to help people use it and use it effectively in their community.
Benn Marine 22:17
And so sp speaking of that, what have been some of the more like some of the most rewarding stories that you've heard come out of the use of of these tools?
Martha Grant 22:28
Yeah, I mean I love a good like NLRB election. So whenever we get an email from our friends in labor that like hey this this union was just formed on the tool like we just we love those. I I think that my favorite like a couple favorite favorite things have been for folks who like smaller community groups that haven't been using technology generally to suddenly sort of see the power of data and having that sort of visualization of what's been happening where this one woman um I was working with she while I was training her up on the tool sent me a picture of map with all of these post-it notes on it that were the names of all of her leaders across the state of California. And it's one of like my favorite pictures because now she just goes to a tab in Action Builder and has little docs, color-coded dots for all of her leaders and supporters across the state whereas before she had to like update these post-it notes with like 150 names of different leaders around the state. And so making people's lives easier so they spend more time organizing and more time thinking strategically about like where do I need to build leadership to run a successful organization and to run a successful campaign is just like my favorite thing. We're all about people spending less time in the tool itself and more time out having conversations and the stories that aren't my favorite are just about like we can have so many more conversations because we don't need to worry about data and we can just have what we need in our pocket at all times.
Benn Marine 24:09
What has it I mean I feel like you've kind of spoken to this a little bit uh but what has it been like to be able to kind of reimagine how organizers can interact with data and and how that can actually as you just said have such a huge impact on the work and I it and it sounds like just a huge capacity builder too to be able to focus on those relationships and less so much about you know making sure your numbers are in at the end of the day.
Martha Grant 24:36
Yeah. I mean I think there's no way we would be and I say this all the time to our our development table there's no way we would be where we're at without our cooperative development process and our like cooperative development table or a product development committee with the AFL CIO affiliate. So like we have a pretty structured process. One of my favorite things like personally is facilitation like facilitating a meeting drawing out ideas from folks um figuring out like bouncing ideas off one another figuring out where to go from from where and that is a a skill little a sort of um something I've been really able to do in the role of the product manager for Action Builder and now as the director of project strategy across those tool sets it's all about learning and listening to what folks really want and need in order to make their lives easier. And in the most effective way possible that that also means using the least amount of development time so coming up with really clever solutions so that we can internally use our development resources effectively to meet those needs.
Benn Marine 26:08
Along the road have you had moments where you know you're you're building this really cool tool set and then do people use it in a way like oh my gosh I never would have thought to use this in that way but that is really kind of a brilliant way to utilize that.
Martha Grant 26:24
Totally um there's like there's so many so many ways so one um one sort of like big one is we're very people centric right now in terms of our organizing like methodology that we support in action builder. I'm sure that's come through a fair amount like all about like building leadership and and keeping track of your one-on-one conversation especially on the building trade side but really throughout throughout labor and throughout our movement you also want to do sort of power mapping and which organizations are with us which employers are favorable to us or which work sites are favorable to us or contractors whatever um whatever your language is depending on the organizing situation. And so we've had several cases where folks have created a campaign where instead of listing the name of a person as the person record they'll list like the employer take up like it's a person. And then use the super flexible data model that we have where you can customize what questions and what responses are available at the campaign level to make questions and responses that are specific to like that employer and keeping track of is this employer with us or against us. And then they have a map in one campaign of where all the employers are and a map in the other campaign of where all the workers are and they toggle between them. So that was a really creative solution to be able to do that power mapping and that sort of um very targeted campaign work.
Benn Marine 27:58
I that's really I that is really cool. I bet you could do that same thing um like with a legislative campaign like po a power map of you know your local either municipal or state legislature if trying to move you know them on an issue. Like that that's totally neat.
Martha Grant 28:14
I'm so glad you said that. I was actually just talking about that idea this morning it I think that it would be really actually very effective for tracking individual legislators positions on like specific pieces of legislation or similar for like um city councils or other situations like that because you could set a color coded scale like green yellow red like be able to like quickly and effectively coordinate like oh I just heard that this person changed um changed their views on this piece of legislation um and have that all that information shared in real time between all the people who needed to see it.
Benn Marine 28:50
I'm curious does the does it allow you to kind of see a kind of history of communication like if you know whether whether it's with like a volunteer or like in this case a a legislator like could you say like could you make a note of like legislator's dog's name is Pearl or something. I don't know that's kind of a silly thing.
Martha Grant 29:10
But like absolutely yeah yeah no we have a free form note field associated with each person um and uh it's used a lot as it should be like it's just so important to keep track of the content of a one-on-one conversation um and like to be able to hand off like oh I just heard this to any organizer who comes after totally. And actually we um it looks like next month are going to be rolling out a new feature in the tool set that we're calling activity stream. So at the campaign level you'll be able to see all the notes that have been added all of the fields responses that have been added to each record like when an email address or phone number has been added or updated in this one long stream and then filter it to a specific date range or like only to assessments or only to assessments by a particular user to get like that running flow of of what's been happening and I'm really excited about that feature. I'm really glad our our development table said like yes we want that um this is what we need it to do. It's gonna be really powerful.
Benn Marine 30:20
Oh my gosh yeah that's I'm I'm excited to to check that out when it comes out um yeah I'm curious so even aside from from your role at at action uh action network and action builder just as somebody with an organizing background and all and especially with all of your experience now working with different organizers and organizations what have been some kind of helpful things that you've picked up along the way that you'd want to impart on other organizers?
Martha Grant 30:51
I mean I think it's this is something that like you know is all you there's always something amazing to learn from whoever you're in conversation with there's always a ma there's so many amazing stories and so many amazing people in our movement who have such hopes and dreams for our future and are working to make them happen. You know that working in this movement is so inspiring. And I think with everything depressing that's happening right now so many things so many things it can be all the things it's so easy to spend time with one another sort of sinking into despair and doing like really you know spiraling into can you believe and uh like is democracy like dying right now and like here's all these terrible things that are happening. You know I think that like entering that spiral is a it's it's hard to resist to the choice that we have to enter that spiral with one another. But it's so important I think now more than ever to exactly like you're doing with this podcast lift up the amazing stories that we have um in our movement and the amazing work each other are doing and believe that we can have a better future and that we are working actively to build it. It can it's it's easy to forget that like that the work that we're doing the slow slog of organizing matters in these sort of really dark times but it really really does. There's nothing I love more than getting to talk to people who are out there organizing and out there helping people believe that they have power and exercise that power like that gives me so much hope every day.
Benn Marine 32:52
Yeah and and I have to say it's it's been really incredible. I mean just some of there just don't there like it's mind blowing the amount of just incredible work that's happening out there and just all of the innovation and ingenuity and you know coalitions that are being built like they're I'm totally with you and I can feel overwhelming and I I don't I have especially I'm gonna totally just own like I suffer from the hard right you file on top all of these things and sometimes it can just feel like so much and yeah I just want to echo what what you said. I mean it's there's just so much happening out there and even though it's hard to see it because it's not in the news I mean the needle is is moving and it's and it's and and the work that's happening is impacting people's everyday lives which is really it's really cool. It's it's very it's very inspiring for sure. And I want to thank you so much for the work that you guys are doing and putting these like tools in the hands of organizers and activists and making it so accessible and creating that support and and thinking about ways that that we can be doing the work better and more effectively. I just I it's so huge.
Martha Grant 34:12
It's so huge and thank you so so much for thank you thank you I mean if we can save organizers a couple hours per week they can have so many more conversations over the course of a year and build so much more power and if we can do that you know even just a hundred times over we are in a better place as a movement and when we can do that 10,000 times over or 5000 times over the power that we'll have is just going to grow and grow and it needs to it needs to meet these challenges and we can do that.
Benn Marine 34:46
Absolutely awesome oh my gosh thank you so much if folks want to um try out these tools where where should they go? Yeah actionnetwork.org for our digital mobilization tool set and actionbuilder.org for our organizing tool set um and we're excited to bring them together with an Action Builder Action Network integration soon so stay posted to that sign up for our email list um and we'll we'll keep you posted on the development of both of our tools thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode with Martha Grant from the Action Network and Action Builder be sure to check out the show notes for links to all of the resources that Martha mentioned. And if you're enjoying this podcast please subscribe wherever you listen thank you I appreciate you well
