Resiliency Work in Communities of Color with Samaa Abdurraqib

April 18, 2019

This week Benn sits down with Samaa Abdurraqib, a longtime organizer who moved to Maine in 2010 and has worked on reproductive justice, healthcare access, and racial justice ever since. Samaa traces her organizing roots to her graduate student union at UW-Madison, including going on strike, before describing why she's shifted her focus toward resiliency work: building POC-only spaces, a reading group, and a flexible fund (with Resources for Organizing and Social Change, or ROSC) that supports organizers and artists of color in Maine.

They talk about why POC-only spaces matter, how to ask for that space even when it makes white allies uncomfortable, and the toll of being singled out as "the" Black organizer to watch. Samaa shares the advice that changed her approach — meet people where they're at — and how she now protects her own boundaries against burnout, including through her work as an Outdoor Afro leader. In a bonus segment recorded after the "official" interview ended, she and Benn dig into how resiliency work and legislative organizing aren't in competition — both matter, and different paths call to different people.

SHOW NOTES & LINKS

Samaa Abdurraqib’s resume of experience in the world of organizing is long. She has been a professor, abortion rights and reproductive justice organizer, she has organized for access to healthcare and so much more. In her current job she provides training, support, and project coordination for the Maine  Coalition to End Domestic Violence. What we talk the most about though is the organizing she is doing outside of her 40 hour a week job, which is doing resiliency work within communities of color. We discuss what it means to meet folks where they are at and the importance of finding work that fills your cup.

Resources for Organizing and Social Change (ROSC)

Changing Maine – This is the event Samaa mentioned that she and ROSC are in the process of organizing for 2019. This link goes to the Changing Maine Directory, where you can find other progressive organizations and resources. To keep a pulse on when the next Changing Maine event will be, follow ROSC on facebook and keep tabs on the Changing Maine site as they often put updates there.

Outdoor Afro – This links to the national Outdoor Afro organizational page. Outdoor Afro is an organization working to make the outdoors more accessible to black and brown folks across the country. There are chapters all across the country, check out their site to learn more or to find a chapter near you.

Outdoor Afro of Maine – If you’re local to Maine, here is the link to our local chapter organized by Samaa. You can also send Samaa and the other organizers a message through this site if you happen to have gear, like snowshoes for example, that you might be looking to donate to help make the outdoors more accessible.

Meetup.com – Meetup is the platform that Samaa utilizes for outdoor Afro, and if you’re thinking of getting into resiliency work yourself, this could be a great place to start working to connect with your community. Meetup is a website that will list different opportunities for folks to be in activity together, whether it a reading group, photography club, sports association, you name it, it’s a great place to find other folks with similar interests. Before starting your own thing, search meetup.com and see if there is anyone already doing it, you may make some new friends!

• Transcript

  Benn Marine 0:10

  Welcome to the ocean of organizing podcast, where every week we explore what it means to build community and create change. This week I had the honor and privilege of sitting down with [inaudible] in her home to talk about her work doing resiliency organizing in communities of color since moving to Maine in 2010. So mas organizing has focused on access to universal healthcare, reproductive justice and abortion rights and racial justice. She currently works as a project coordinator for the main coalition to end domestic violence in her free time. Some mock collaborates with other black and Brown people to create rejuvenating community building experiences for folks of color in southern Maine. And with that, let's dive on in. Okay.

  Samaa Abdurraqib 1:00

  Smile. What got you into organizing? I feel like since college I've kind of been kind of been an organizer, so I did, um, you know, I participated in like our black cultural awareness club and a organization and college. And, um, at some point towards the end of my college time, I attended like a take back the night. Um, and so I feel like I, and I, and I came from a family who was always thinking about racial politics. And so I think I always had that kind of, um, agitative spirit. But I didn't do any formal organizing until I went to graduate school. And I started working with our graduate student union and I joined the Union, I'm pretty sure my second year in Grad school and was active with the Union and, and, uh, serving a bunch of different roles in the union through the rest of my time in near. So for nine years I was really active in that, in that union. Oh, cool. And what, so what did that look like? Yeah, so it's the kind of organizing that I really, that really resonated with me and it still does now because it was very, um, it was both internal focus and external focus. And so we, um, our union, the Teaching Assistance Association was one of the first graduate student unions that was organized in the, in the u s and so we were pretty solid and well established. But you know, with, with graduate workers, just there's a constant turnover. And so, you know, there is a lot of education work that needs to be done. Um, not everyone was a member of the union and so, you know, to build power you want to get more union members. And so we did a lot of, um, visiting people in their offices and in their labs where they work to, to talk with them about, um, you know, how to organize for the work environment that you, that you want. And, uh, you know, we asked a lot of questions about what it was like to do whatever job that they were, whatever job I was doing. It was a lot of education about, you know, even though we're in Grad School for this temporary amount of time, the, the work that we're doing is still, it's still labored and it should and it, uh, it should still be valued as such. We're still workers. Um, but then we also organized externally, you know, too, we advocated for workers' rights in the state. We had great relationships with teachers and unions. We were, um, there, the teachers union was our, like our parent union. Um, and so, so yeah, that's, it looked, it looked, it was a very, it was a lot of internal organizing but then also also external policy change. Mm. Maybe, maybe three years or so. I served on the contract enforcement committee and so that was a lot of um, um, working with in, with members and people in their department, their supervisors, their chairs of the department to kind of make sure that the, that they're being treated according to the terms of their contract, that kind of thing. So, so it was kind of multifaceted in a way that I found really exciting.

  Benn Marine 4:17

  Yeah. Cool. And you're also a writer, right? Like you do, um, like, and you, and you were a professor teaching as well. I'm curious how like for me, something I that like I think about a lot is how does art kind of influence either ourselves in the work or inspire us in the work or, or is it totally separate? Is it more of like an outlet just for self care? Like, how, how, what was that like for you? Well,

  Samaa Abdurraqib 4:39

  uh, when I was in Grad school, I didn't really write for pleasure because, ah, Grad school killed my, that kind of creativity. And so, um, and my [inaudible] so I have a degree in English and I'm on my studies and my, the work that I was doing, the research and the writing I was doing from a phd wasn't, wasn't actually connected to any kind of any kind of labor movement. But I think what was really beneficial, um, to try to organizing and an academic institution was that there were folks who were staff at our, at the ta, at our Union, um, who were also Grad students and who were studying the labor movement. And so, um, and these were friends that I hung out with, um, who, um, who were invested in this work, both, um, for their law, you know, both intellectually and socially, you know, and so I, I ended up learning a whole lot. Um, but my, but my writing, my teaching has always felt kind of separate. Um, I'm not an academic anymore. And so my writing looks really different now. And so I think that my writing is more connected to the kind of organizing that I'm doing now than it, than it was when I was doing union work. And so on.

  Benn Marine 5:57

  In terms of the organizer you're doing now, what kind of things are you involved with currently and how's that different from the union work you were doing?

  Samaa Abdurraqib 6:04

  Yeah, so I would say that in some ways it's similar in that it is, um, I see it very internal focus. So, um, since I moved to Maine, I've done, I've organized an a, an a bunch of different capacities, like I've done organizing around abortion access and reproductive justice and access to healthcare. And recently I've just really decided that I want to focus my attention on resiliency work with within black and brown communities. And so for me that, that I think of that as being internal because I'm really interested in how black and Brown people can come together and share space and create and create together, create, you know, art, create, um, um, healing work, you know, create spaces where, you know, we can develop new things and dream and all of that. And, um, and so I am, while I am, it's not as if I don't care about policy change and, and all of that, that just, um, I think I am less at this point in my life these last few years. I am less interested in that constant struggle, particularly in this really white state that has a hard time, um, that has a hard time grappling with, um, the needs and the well the needs of its black population and, um, has a hard time validating that our lives are, are in and of themselves valuable. It's just a, that's just exhausting. And so, um, I just like,

  Benn Marine 7:53

  okay,

  Samaa Abdurraqib 7:54

  I'm just invested in being around black and Brown folks who want to dream and create things. And, um, I like to use my skills and my connections and my expertise to make those things happen.

  Benn Marine 8:03

  What are some things in that work that like, so if there's, if there are folks listening that are trying to do similar work, um, what are some things that have worked well in like bringing folks together?

  Samaa Abdurraqib 8:13

  Yeah, so I, um, a couple of years ago, um, every year there's a gathering called changing Maine and it's a gathering for, um, um, organizers. It's, it's, it's kind of a organized by resources for organizing and social change. It's there, they're an organization that supports the work of different organizers and, and change makers across the state. And um, so the primary organizer asked me if I wanted to help put together an agenda and put together some content for changing main. And one of the things that I thought was really important was to have, um, a POC only space as much as possible. Um, and I, I thought that, that since moving to Maine, I have rarely experienced that. And I was reminded of that, that kind of the, the, the importance of having a POC only space. When I went to, uh, I had gone to a conference like that previous the previous year and we were in a black only space and we were all different kinds of black folks, but we were all black folks who were at a very large conference at a majority white conference. And there's just, you know, um, and it was amazing to be in that space and to just recognize each other's humanity and, and to recognize it, some, some similarities of our experience and to not have to, um, not have to code switch in the same kinds of ways and, um, to see our potential in different ways. And so, so I really wanted to organize a POC only space. And so I did that. And it was as someone who did not grow up in Maine, you know, as a black person who didn't grow up in Maine, I realized that there are lots of folks of color here who have never experienced anything like that. I've never experienced being in a primary earn a majority brown space. And, and that is, um, it is, it is not perfect when you're in a majority of brown space. But it is, it is, it is very beautiful. And so, um, so being able to, being able to do that was really worked really well. And some of the things that in those workshops, some of the things that we talked about was about how to work together across La, you know, POC line people, uh, lines of difference, um, when there are no white people around because white supremacy is still in the room. Um, particularly in this kind of state where, you know, if we think about funding and which organizations get fun, gets funded, then there's only like one, you know, there's only one organization who works with black and Brown people who can get funded. That just causes a lot of tension and competition and being able to have black and Brown folks in the room together to talk about that, talk about that experience and to think of something new and to dream of something new. Um, I don't know. That seems really, that just seems really important. And so I try to, I try to create those spaces if I can, whenever I can, and so that we can figure out ways to continue to support each other.

  Benn Marine 11:22

  So for folks of color that are listening, either in Maine and maybe outside of Maine as well, like, and if they're looking for those spaces, what, do you have recommendations for folks in terms of finding like spaces like that both here in Maine or even if there are like national conferences that you can think of? Yeah, so I think, I think, you know, I would, if you're going to a conference, the thing that I would call that as like a caucus, right? So if you go to a national conference in you or you're helping organize a national conference and you have the capacity to ask for a caucus space, um,

  Samaa Abdurraqib 11:54

  then you, then you ask for that space. And, and if you, I mean, hopefully you're in a, in a context where you don't have to explain the importance of that. Um, but if you do, then you, if you do have to find that you have to explain the importance of that, then just you can talk about it as restorative, as healing, you know? Um, because I think that sometimes, and this has been my experience here in May, and I think that sometimes white folks, when they see that you're creating the space that's just for black and Brown folks, they feel like, they feel like they should also have access to that. And that's just a symptom of white, of white privilege. And, um, you know, they feel like they should have access to that because there are good allies or they should have access to that because separation, how to separation further, you know, racial justice or racial harmony. Um, and what I think ultimately they need to understand is that if black and brown people say that they need that and that is what they need. And that is how you are an ally. If you just listen to what they're saying, what black and Brown people are saying that they need, then you do what you can to, to provide that, you know, um, and outside of like a conference context, I mean, I think that it has been my experience here, and this is less and less now, but I think it's been my experience that people, that we, sometimes black folks and other folks of color sometimes feel like we can't, we, we can't ask for the thing that we need, you know, or we can't, we might be concerned about how will it be perceived or we have to, um, and I, I don't, or we have to take whatever is given to us, even if those, even if the terms are not what we want. So like, you know, if we were to say, um, say we're hosting an event at a, in a space like a gallery or something like that. And,

  Benn Marine 14:03

  hmm,

  Samaa Abdurraqib 14:03

  it's a, it's a black artist and we want to either prioritize, uh, black community members to have access or we want to make it only for black folks. And, um, I think, I think it gets, we get nervous about asking for that, but I think it's all a conversation. So maybe, you know, so maybe what you can do is have, like if the, if it's not feasible to have the entire event be black, only then let's have like a portion of it or one day that's for just black folks and then the next day is open to the public or let's make sure that, um, we reserve the first five rows or you know, for black, black and Brown folks. So there, I think that I'm just asking and being open and flexible to out how to make it happen, um, is important and not giving up.

  Benn Marine 15:00

  No. Yeah, that's, that's super real. What, what, what have been some of the, in terms of organizing, what have been some of, like the, the biggest learns or, or takeaways for, from organizing that, um, have been valuable in?

  Samaa Abdurraqib 15:19

  Yeah, I think, I think that this is a thing that I know in terms of like doing any kind of work that I've ever done in my life. So I do, um, um, you know, I've done work to support survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault. And right now I do a lot of, I do support work for advocates who were doing that work. Um, and I think, and you know, I've taught college students and a thing that, you know, that I know that I have been taught and have practices that you meet people where they're at. Um, but, but in my organizing work, I sometimes get,

  Benn Marine 16:01

  uh,

  Samaa Abdurraqib 16:02

  very focused on a particular outcome and, um, and that's not really helping anyone. So, for example, um, a couple of years ago, me and another black woman, fem organizers started this flexible fund to help support, um, organizers of color and artists of color to, um, enhance their skills to put on events to, to whatever initiatives, you know, um, they, you know, we are, they were working on and when we first started I remembered, I was like, this is it. This is, we're going to bring black and Brown folks together and we are going to make like this huge impact. We are going to like, um, you know, impact. I wasn't necessarily thinking policy, but I was like, we're going to, I don't know, do all this racial justice training work and advocacy kind of work, whatever that looks like. And I remember that I'm this black woman that I know who doesn't live in the state anymore. She left main, but um, she had been living here was just a couple of years I remember. So I remember and we invited her over to have a conversation, just kind of like a planning kind of Let's vision dreaming conversation. And she was just like, you just have to meet people where they're at. Like people, Black and Brown folks here were all in these far flung places. We just want to be able to get together. And she was like, why don't you just start a reading group? And I had been feeling a lot of, um, frustration about what I wanted to see happen. Um, you know, I didn't have particulars. I wasn't like, I want to see this event and this kind of thing. It was just like, I just expected movement and that everybody would be excited about movement towards some goal. And uh, she was right. She was like, it just, people just need to, you know, black and brown people are feeling isolated. They feel, you know, we feel isolated and, um, we just need to come together. And uh, and so that's why I did, I started like a little reading group and use the flexible funds to, to start the reading group. And that was, that was the best advice. I mean, even though it was a thing that I know, um, it, it was just the, it was just the best advice and it changed so much. Um, and I think that the, the,

  Benn Marine 18:40

  yeah,

  Samaa Abdurraqib 18:41

  it just added much more meaning to the, like the relationships that I've been able to form since then and um, the projects that people have taken on and the way that this fund has been able to support [inaudible]

  Benn Marine 18:57

  mmm.

  Samaa Abdurraqib 18:58

  You know, these different projects and ideas. So meet people where they're at. It's really true. That's awesome. What about maybe like, uh, challenges or um, or, or like challenging things in, in organizing that, that you, that you've kind of had to like problem solve or, or kind of sort out? I think that, um, I think that I have found, and I don't know, I think that there's a, I think that, I'm not completely sure if this is particular to Maine, um, because there is, because black and Brown folks are in the, my deeply in the minority, but there's a, there's an issue that there's a visibility issue I think. And what I mean by that is that once someone, once one of us starts doing some, some work in a visible public way, then all of this attention and all the shine and gets placed on this person and they get lifted up to this pedestal that is difficult to grapple with. I think it's like, you know, it increases our burnout because, um, all of the white folks were like that as the black person we should be following. And you know, that may be true. It may not be true. I mean, it may be true whether or not it's true. It's not the thing that I'm, I'm saying, I'm saying that like all of that attention, it just increases. It increases a burnout and increases our,

  Benn Marine 20:38

  hmm.

  Samaa Abdurraqib 20:40

  Our level of like conflict and tension about whether or not we want to be public, whether or not we don't want to be public, it makes it, um, I, I, I think it can make it difficult for us to say, you know what, actually, I'm not the person, you know, maybe, maybe you should be paying attention to this other black woman who was doing all this, this work, then, you know, just because I'm doing this thing right now in this public way does not mean that I can do all of the things, you know, like there are other people. But I think that, um, I think that that's a tool of, I think that that's one of the ways that white supremacy works. It, it, it, it props up one or you know, a handful of select black and Brown people and doesn't pay attention to the other people who've been doing the work forever. Um, or doesn't, um, you know, it. Oh, like if you, um, it forces you to be, not forces you, but asks you to be visible on, on, on those terms. Like, you know, you know, like it. So I think, I think that that is, that is difficult. I feel like,

  Benn Marine 21:56

  mmm.

  Samaa Abdurraqib 22:00

  I know that I, I know that I have to always ask myself what my goal and my purposes, like whatever it is that I'm doing, who is benefiting ultimately. And um, and sometimes I'm not really good at asking myself those questions. And then I realized that this, this, this thing that I have been engaged in and maybe it is just about me and whatever attention I'm getting for whatever event that I've organized or whatever space I've created. And, um, and I think, I think that that's hard and I, and maybe that's difficult for organizers across the state. I don't know. I just know that if you are a black person or a brown person and you step out and start doing some sort of organizing work or some sort of racial justice work, you just get you just to get all of this attention and then that means you have to be a certain way. Like if you want to continue to keep be propped up by that, which I don't particularly care about being propped up by any of that. But like if you, if it's important to you, then you have to maintain a certain, you have to play by all these rules or else you just get dropped. And that's, you know, I think it's just, I think it's exhausting and I think it, it play, it has a psychological toll that is hard to, that is hard to reckon with particularly because there's just so much work to do. And so you feel like you just have to keep doing the work, you know? Yeah. That is difficult. Um, I mean, and then there are other things that I feel like any person who does any kind of organizing and this big and this big ass state that is like so different in all of the different, like, you know, Portland is so different from Lewis, then it's so different from Bangor is so different from a rustic. And I feel like that happens in other than, of course that happens in other states, but we, you know, it's just, it's harder to, um, hmm. I think it's just harder to remain connected to everybody in the state.

  Benn Marine 24:11

  Okay. Yeah. Something you mentioned in there was, it was burnout and I'm curious how, how you navigate that, especially with like where are you, where you have been doing organizing work for so long? Um, what are some things or, or, and do you end, do you and do you feel like, or do you feel like you have burnt out at times, um, or, or, and if not, like how have you, how have you like stayed in the work in like sustained, if that makes sense.

  Samaa Abdurraqib 24:38

  Yeah. I have to say that like this, my, my switch to this like resiliency work has helped immensely. Like I di, I can't like the, um, like, you know, I have a 40 hour a week job and, and I, and I love the work that I do, but that's, that's enough struggle. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like I have to like, that's enough struggle. I don't, and I'm not saying that I don't struggle in the resiliency work. There still was, you know, they're still hurting cats. There's still like a bunch of things that I, you know, I don't know. There's a bunch of stuff that I don't know about. Um, uh, in terms of like some of the particular work that I'm doing now, like there's a bunch of that I'm like, I don't know. But, um, so my shift to resiliency work is it was a response to being burnt, just being burnt out. Like I'm feeling like if I have to go to another meeting where we're pretending to push a boulder up a hill, but we're not actually doing it, I just can't do that anymore. Not that that's important work. It's just not my work right now because I look around me and I see black folks who are, you know, are being affected by what's, but we all see happening across the country and even here and we don't, and this trying to pretend to push this boulder up, this hill is not, is not, is not feeding us. So, um, so that, and some like the resiliency work is in some it was a response to burnout, but I still get burnt out even with the resiliency work because it's still like herding cats. It's still like trying to keep track of the thousand things and am a person who I try to have good boundaries. Like, uh, when I'm done, I'm done. And I like shutdown. Um, I think, um, I think I can always be better with boundaries. I think the switch to resiliency work means that I organize. I am now like doing organizing work with people who are closer to my heart, who are my friends and who, um, you know, I don't just see as like organizing comrades, the, you know, and so I think it's harder to have boundaries when you were working with people that are, who were close to your heart and you are like doing like, you know, organizing a retreat that feeds people, souls and, and it's so beautiful. Um, and so, and so you're like, I'm just going to keep doing all of the, all the cat herding, all of that, all of that, because you know, because of how it feeds you. And so I, I have always valued my ability to set boundaries, but I have been finding that doing this resiliency work, it means that I have to, I have to carve out more time for myself. So like last year I didn't do that. It was, it was a mess last year. So this year I'm doing more, you know, I'm making sure that I have time for meditation retreats. I, um, I am like, I booked a vacation for myself to go birding. I, um, one of the things that I do is I'm an, I'm an outdoor Afro leader, which means that I have to go, that I spend, I'm spending more times in the out, more time in the outdoors and that that feels, I'm trying to make sure that I'm doing more things that are rejuvenated, rejuvenating, and um, and in the summertimes I spend a lot of time outside by myself. So that's also good. But so this year I'm being more intentional about trying to put parameters and boundaries, um, on that work because it's hard when you organize with people who are close to your heart. You just want to be around them all the time and keep doing things and you know, um, so, but yeah, I think burnout is real, but I also think that one good thing that I feel like the people around me have a good, there's a good culture of like recognizing and respecting that people do get, they get tapped out. And I don't necessarily know that we call it burnout because it's not, we aren't doing like org legislative type based organizing. It's more like, I, I need to just not talk to people for a few days. And you know, I texted you five days ago about x thing for you know, about this thing for this event that we're trying to do and I haven't heard back from you for five days. And, and then if, and then the response is like, yeah, just had a rough couple of days and we are more forgiving with each other. Um, and that's, that feels really good. So also I think, um, we try to recognize that we all have lives that are any degree of a disaster. And so we just, we just, we just give each other space and that is also good. And that is, I think that that's important. And I feel like sometimes when you're on like a legislative timeline, you, you can't do that same thing. Or if you're getting paid to do the work, you can't, there isn't that same kind of understanding that people just need time sometimes, you know?

  Benn Marine 29:47

  But, but I think as a good reminder that even if you, if you, even if you aren't getting paid or even if you are like, dude, it is important to, it is still important to give people the time and space because it's, if you look at the end of the day, it is all about people. And so if you're not respecting that, it's hard to, you know, keep, keep people in the work. Um, yeah. What about favorite, uh, favorite moments? Like flick, fondest memories? Yeah.

  Samaa Abdurraqib 30:15

  Oh, so one of my fondest memories is, uh, going on strike with our, with our, uh, graduate workers union, the Teaching Assistance Association. And so I'm, so this was at university, Wisconsin, Madison. And the time I was there was before I left, before Scott Walker, who, um, whose governor took office and then made everything terrible. He was a terrible, terrible Republican, Conservative governor who did not, who maybe Wisconsin, right to work state, but we, but our union went on strike. Um, and one of it was, so we were a massive, um, our union covered, um, something like 2100, um, graduate workers. Not everyone was a member, but are what we covered like 2100 graduate workers. But our, our membership was, was very large. And to go on strike, we need it to have like two thirds and you know, all of those things. And so, um, two thirds of our membership agreeing. And so that meant a lot of meetings and a lot of like, it was, you know, a lot of Robert's rules. It was democracy in action and it took forever. Right. Took for a five or people were showing up to union meetings that you like, I've never seen you before where it, because this was, you know, we were, um, uh, this was about our health care premiums, um, and, and, uh, our contract bargaining. So we finally agreed to go on strike and I had never been on strike before. Um, and at that point I was just a union steward, I think, um, for our, for our department. So he may have been like my third year in Grad School and, uh, it was, it was really, you know, I don't know. I think it was a, whether or not it was the right thing, whether we did, many of us believed in the strike and there were some who didn't, but we're like, this is our membership has spoken, this is what we're going to do. Um, and it was, it was a really exhausting but powerful moment of democracy in action. And the day and when we were on the days that we were on strike were, um, really powerful and beautiful. I remember that my friend Melissa Thompson wind beneath my wings who now lives in Maine and teaches at u Maine, Farmington. Uh, she, and, uh, she was in the theater department and Daniel Leclare, who was in law school, they dressed up as cheerleaders and they went around to all of the, you know, our campus was huge. Um, they went around to all the picket lines that are, we set up picket, we set up a picket lines at the high density buildings, you know, and they went and they were cheering. They were like doing cheers at all the and all of the picket lines. And that was just really great. And it was really, it was a really meaningful and impactful moment for me to be able to see like, this is what solidarity looks like. Even through all of those very long, forever, forever meetings with Robert's rules. I mean, you can even imagine, right? Like, oh my God, how long is the speaker's list? But it was really impactful and it helped me, it helped me, you know, we always would sing solidarity forever, but it helped me, it like made that so tangible. And to this day, like I still get when people start talking about, so solidarity means so much to me because of that, that, that process in that moment. So that is a beautiful moment. And the other beautiful moments that changing Maine that I helped organize two years ago in 2017 and creating that POC only space and seeing folks who had never experienced that before, having so much, not, not even knowing that that was a thing that they could have and needed. That was really powerful. And I think that all of the, all of the, you know, since then we've had like a POC, a writing retreat, a feminine woman, a woman of color and femmes of color writing retreat. So seeing people like be fed by these, by these really beautiful spaces and seeing like people's children. I mean I don't have kids, but if I had brown children and I was raising them here and I felt like they were disconnected from other brown children would, it would be very heartbreaking. But seeing like children being able to have like these powerful meaningful experiences with other black or brown kids who looks like look like them, all of that is beautiful to me. They changing Maine, does that happen every year? Yeah, it happens every year. So, so, so I helped organize and to, yeah, it was 2017 and in 2018 I could not, like I, that was a moment where I was like, I'm doing 2018 I did the most and I was like, I cannot. So this year we're going to try to do it again. Um, and we're in the process of organizing and our hope is that it can be a continuation of what started. So we had sessions for white folks and that was massive. And then we had smaller sessions for PLC's. There was a so very small Smith session for indigenous folks. Um, and um, we brought in facilitators from, um, mostly from the Boston area. One person from, um, Baltimore. Yeah. So I don't exactly know what we're going to, I don't know. We're in the beginning phases of organizing it now. Yeah. Awesome. If folks want to learn more about that, where, where should they go? Yes. So they should go to resources. Um, uh, uh, for organizing and social change. That's r o s c. Dot. Org. Um, and they're, they can, they can learn about, they could learn about Rosc as an organization. They can learn about changing, um, Maine and they can also learn about the, the flexible fund that I've been talking about, the forest bias fund. Um, that's the, the fund that, um, that me and another organizer, a friend of mine started in right after the elections in 2016. So they can find more information about that. Rosc as our, as our sponsor. I'll make sure to put links to all that in the show notes too, so folks can go right there and link directly to that stuff. Um, and what, what, and, and you'd mentioned some outdoor, uh, like it sounds like adventure type stuff for folks of color. What, what would be the link for that? Uh, so that is outdoor Afro. Outdoor Afro is a national organization, um, started in Oakland, the Oakland area. And the goal is to connect black folks, connect or reconnect black folks to the outdoors. And so right now it's funny, I'm about to go to, uh, our, um, my second, this is my going to be my second year being an outdoor Afro leader and I'm about to go to the training in April. And I think right now there are about 80 leaders across the u s um, and outdoor afro is now and I think maybe 35 states. So if folks want to learn more about outdoor Afro, they can just go to outdoor. Um, you just Google outdoor Afro, um, are, um, so we have, uh, a main community, outdoor Afro community and we connect through meetup. And so, um, as an outdoor Afro leader, I'm supposed to lead an outdoor event once a month. I have to admit that winter stymied that a little bit. So I gotta I gotta get better at figuring out things to do it. Like we went, we went ice skating in December, I think, but that's, and then I was gonna do like a full moon walk, um, get it full moonwalk anyway. Uh, but then it like snowed and I was like, I'm not doing that, so I don't have snow shoes. So, so anyway, but um, but we, there's a, there's an outdoor Afro Facebook page and outdoor Afro, um, Portland main Facebook page so folks can find out about outdoor afro those ways.

  Benn Marine 38:50

  Is that the kind of thing to where if folks have like extra outdoor gear kicking around, like, like if somebody had snow shoes and they were looking to retire them, do you guys, are you ever looking for gear like a, people donate their gear to you?

  Samaa Abdurraqib 39:03

  Oh, I am so, hmm. That is a good question. I mean, I could do something like it's, it's much looser than that. I mean there's no, I'm like, I don't have, I don't have a donation space, you know, like there's not a, we don't have a, we don't have an office. And so if folks are looking to donate gear, they can always contact me and I can check, I can, I can ask in our, in our main network, do people need snow shoes? You know, that it's, that's what it would be like. It would be a little bit more informal. Yeah. Still, that would be cool though,

  Benn Marine 39:39

  because then if somebody doesn't need, there's no shoes and someone needs, I'm great. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Cool. Um, anything else you want to add or anything you want to make sure folks know or hear?

  Samaa Abdurraqib 39:49

  Um, Ooh. That's like, let's see. I think, um, you know, the, the only, I think what I want to end by saying is that, um, I feel like I've been in the, I've been in Maine since 2010 and I've been doing like not in the nonprofit world in Maine since 2013. And I feel like, and I, and doing organizing work since like 2012 or so, and I feel like we often don't look at, we often don't think about resiliency work as being valid organizing work. So I think about all of the, um, for example, immigrant led organizations that are working on farming sustainable farming and are, are, are, are, are, are working on, um, uh, language acquisition and a like an a very like community, informal kind of setting. And I think, I think that that is important organizing work too. It is not about policy change and it's not about, um, you know, it's not about getting a bill passed or anything like that, but it's about, it's about finding ways for these communities to sustain and support themselves and each other. And I think, and I think that to not see that as, as organizing work, as fundable organizing work for example, um, or to, to not recognize the, the importance or that work as having outcomes is, is a failure. And I think that, I think that that's sometimes how like white supremacist ideals work. Like you have to have, this has to be impactful in these particular ways. Like you have to be able to get this bill passed rather than like, you know, can you teach young people how to braid sweet grass or something like that. Like that. To me that is important organizing work. Um, and so I just, I just think it's important to remember that, to remember to consider that even if it's, even if it's like very internal and, and focused on that community and building that community, that's still valid and important.

  Benn Marine 42:14

  Awesome. Thank you so much. I feel like that does that, that does bring up another question for me. So if, if folks are, are, are like, Ooh, that sounds amazing. I really want to get into resilient work. Kind of like you do like starting like a book club where we are starting like a social or how, how would you recommend folks kind of get their feet wet with resiliency work? I think,

  Samaa Abdurraqib 42:33

  yeah, I think that, um, well I'm thinking about what you mentioned about burnout, you know, for example. So I think that those, that, that, that the antithesis of burnout is healing, right? So, um, I do not consider myself as a person who does healing work per se, but I like healing spaces and I think that that is part of resiliency. And so, um, and so that can be a place to start. Like, you know, bringing people together to figure out what feels like healing. Um, I also think, mmm. Gathering people together so that they can find strength in whatever their stories are and not necessarily for public convince pro public consumption. I think about like survivors of any kind of like, um, survivors of intimate partner violence or gender based violence or that kind of like bringing folks together so that they can, mmm. They can share their experiences and stories in a way that is healing. Like, I think that that is resilient. I think that that's the resiliency work. Um, so just anything that that is about like focusing on your, on yourself or your community members and not necessarily considering what's for public consumption or what's for mmm. What's for, you know? Yeah, I love for public consumption. You know, the impact it would have publicly. That's, that's what I think. So gathering people together, figuring out how to be together in a way that feels regenerating. Um, I think that that's, that's where to start. That's where to start. So to, to just think of it as like this, what would heal us, you know,

  Benn Marine 44:14

  so that like gathering, would you start with just like posting something on like a meetup or, or in terms of that like recruiting and then like the actual bringing together a folks. Is that like working through your network or what it, what does that process look like? I would say working through the, through networks. So when think about like the,

  Samaa Abdurraqib 44:32

  the, the reading group, like I think that I, I started by just pulling the people I knew and then other people found out about it. And honestly, um, you know, and so it was pretty active for about a year, year and a half or so. And then we've kind of drifted, but everybody wants to keep coming back for it. So, but that's, you know, that's where we started and that's how we got to know each other better and, and built more trust so that we can do, can start doing other things. And so, so I say yes, start with networks. Um, and I go back to what my friend said, likes meeting people where they're at. And so, and so that may mean like, you, let's just come together. Let's just come together and have food. So I think of a friend of mine who lives in, um, in the Sanford area, and he and his community, you know, they want it to do racial justice work and, and fight against homophobia and Transphobia, and they want it to just have like community meals. And he was like, I that's, I think that's where I want to start because everybody needs to eat and you know, break sharing food is, is um, it's important bonding work and that's where he started. And so, so that's what I think things like that. So gatherings in your network, maybe with some folks that you know and then invite, invite other folks and then work slowly to build those, those relationships. Um, or if you already know the people and you already have those relationships, then just bring those people together I think. I think it doesn't necessarily need to be in, I don't think it needs to be formal, but it needs to be intentional and I think, I think, I think, you know, like we are, we are here together because we want to being in each other's companies healing. So let's figure out what we want to do together like that.

  Benn Marine 46:19

  Cool. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, hold on friends. I may have set the recorder off prematurely after I shut the recorder off. Simonton I got to talking about resiliency work in contrast to policy work. And she asks that I flipped the recorder back on and to record the rest of our conversation. So here's a little bonus content for you to enjoy. Okay, cool. So we're back. So it's so funny. So we were just talking about, um, resiliency work and I was tying smile. My, my, I feel like my lane is very narrow in that the work I've done is, is, is Lgbtq campaign work. And talking about how, like I worked on a campaign out in Pocatello, Idaho where sure, we passed a trans inclusive nondiscrimination ordinance for the city of Pocatello. So Trans folks can't be fired from their jobs for being trans or denied public accommodations because they're trans. But does that mean that Trans folks are going to get jobs? Probably not. Does that mean that Trans folks are going to feel safe walking down the street? Probably not. Um, which I think brought up some, some, some thoughts. Yeah.

  Samaa Abdurraqib 47:27

  Yeah. I think that I'm so glad that you mentioned that because I think that, um, when I was talking about pushing that boulder up the hill, the pretending the pushes build her up the hill, um, that's a wonderful metaphor when I should've also talked, you used the metaphor of like a wall. I feel like I got burned out because, you know, uh, we keep, I kept throwing my shoulder into a wall that felt like it was not going to move. So ultimately what's supremacy I don't think is going to go away anytime soon. Um, note. So I should note that I am, I am, I'm not an optimist. I am a realist sometimes verging on pessimists. And so, so I found myself engaged in this work that like I just, I don't, I don't necessarily know that racism, homophobia, sexism is going to be eradicated. And so, but so why not just like, why not just turn our attention inwards and just focus on, on what our communities need to thrive? Like, I feel like that is immensely less exhausting than throwing my shoulder against the wall that, um, like you said, yeah, you might be able to pass some legislation that will impact people's lives. I think all things are needed, like real talk. I think the legislative, uh, the legislative, um, um, path is needed. Uh, so it was grassroots organizing. Like all of these things are needed. Legislative wins do impact people's lives, but, um, it just feels much more meaningful to like stop trying to fight against something that is external, much less exhausting. And then to just focus on what, what my, you know, the people who I see as my community members need and want and what fee, what, you know, what feels fulfilling. Um, yeah, it's just much, it's just much less exhausting and it feels, it just feels like a, at least that's where I'm at right now. It feels more meaningful to me. Yup.

  Benn Marine 49:54

  Yeah, that makes sense. It's so interesting too because, so like would the organizer I've been interviewing, like there's some folks who have, who have been in like the legislative campaign track for a long time. And I can't, I mean, I did that for like, I can't fathom going at this point in my life. I can't fathom going back into that because it was incredibly exhausting and taxing and all the things. Um, I do believe in that work. Long story short, this works. We're in it for awhile and are still in it and the, and they keep going and, and, and so it just brings me to the point that like, I think different paths are for different people. Like if like, if that makes your heart sing power to you, you know, but that, but that, that's not all that there is, but that there is, and I think that's what I really appreciate about our current, just sit like this resiliency work is just as important. Um, you know, and that you can, you really can't have one without the other. You really can't, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad you brought that up. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Anything else you want to, that's it. I'm done. Okay. Thank you for tuning into this week's episode with [inaudible]. If you're curious about any of the events or organizations at [inaudible] named like outdoor Afro or Rosc, be sure to check out the show notes where I have linked to all of them. You can find the show notes@oceanoforganizing.com if you are enjoying this podcast, as much as I enjoy creating it for you, please subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to this podcast as it helps our rankings, which in turn helps other folks like yourself find this content. Thank you so much. I appreciate you. Be well.