Direct Action & Organizing: Sass Linekin on the Maine Oil Train Blockade

This week Benn shares a conversation with Sass Linekin, who got their start in organizing through a dramatic direct action: blockading train tracks to stop fracked oil trains from moving through their Maine community. Sass walks through the anatomy of that action — the planning, the arrest, the media strategy — and the gut-punch realization ten days later that a nearly identical train derailed and exploded in Lac-Mégantic, Quebec, killing 50 people. From there, Sass traces their path from student organizer to director of resources for organizing and social change at ROSC (Resource for Organizing and Social Change), reflecting on growing up in poverty, the class barriers to getting involved in activism, and why real equity means building projects with impacted communities from the start rather than handing them a finished plan. Sass also talks about ROSC's youth-led YAG (Youth Activism Gathering), now in its 19th year, and why today's young organizers give them hope for the future.

SHOW NOTES

Sass shares a powerful story of how a direct action protesting trains transporting fracked oil through their small Maine town forever changed the direction of their life. Now as an organizer for Resources for Organizing Social Change (ROSC) they share the skills they have learned over the years. I should note that this is a skype call I had with Sass last winter so when they discuss different events the timing was much earlier in the year than when this is landing in your inbox. And Monday June 16th is the YAG conference!

Resources for Organizing and Social Change (ROSC) – ROSC does all kinds of great work supporting and cultivating organizers. Definitely check them out and if you are able attend one of their trainings.

Youth Activism Gathering (YAG) – This is coming right up this Monday!! If you are a kiddo or have kiddos, check it out.

• Transcript

  Benn Marine 0:08

  Welcome to the Ocean of Organizing podcast, where every Thursday we explore what it means to build community and create change. I'm Ben Maureen and this week I'm sharing with you a Skype call conversation that I had with Sass Linekin where they shared with me their story in getting started in organizing and the impact that organizing has had on their life. And so with that, let's dive on in. To jump in, what um what got you started with organizing?

  Sass Linekin 0:48

  When I was in Unity College, um I my school paid for me to go to Washington, D.C. for the Ford On Climate March. And when we came back, um they invited 350 Maine into the school to do like some follow-up work and to connect with students who wanted to get involved. And it just so happened that the people who came to my school were working on something um that was that was based in an area really close to where I was living. Um so there were oil trains that were coming through um the town that my kids were going to school in. And my kids went to two different schools, but these the train tracks went basically like between both of the schools, and it was carrying um fracked oil, which we knew um we knew at the time that the train cars that the oil was being transported in had a propensity for breaking apart if they fell over. Um so when they came to the school and we did this follow-up work, and then I decided I wanted to um connect with them further because I was getting a degree in environmental stuff. Um when I met with them, they talked to me about the the oil trains, and I got really worried about whether or not one of these trains was gonna tip over if it was gonna like taint the water that was going into my kids' school, um, or schools, I should say, because they were in two different schools. And um so uh I feel really lucky because my entrance into organizing was this sort of like grand thing that had an outcome um that was really um victorious, I guess, uh triumphant. It was um we were able to see it through in a positive way, which is not always the case. But um anyway, it ended up they they ended up uh coming and meeting with us, and um, and when I say us, I mean my husband and I, and um talking to us about the trains and and what the dangers were, and ended up inviting us into this really elaborate direct action where um so so my entrance into organizing was to help to organize this action where we um we worked with somebody who was I'm not sure if he's a I believe he is a carpenter, and he like created schematics to make a large blockade that could be put together in a really short period of time. Um, so like two minutes. It was in right, and it was uh an OSHA to OSHA standards so that it could be put up and you could stand on it and it would hold weight. Basically, we so this guy came up with the schematics to be able to erect a blockade um within two minutes. And so there were a few of us who were up on the train tracks putting this blockade together and to create a diversion so that we could actually get it up before the cops would stop us. We had um a bunch of people on standby who basically we used like a phone tree, and um and they were just ready to get the call and to show up when we knew a train was coming. And so we ended up finding out that there was this train that was gonna be coming through. I think it was supposed to be coming through at like eight o'clock at night. And so we had somebody at the train yard who communicated with the people at the train yard, letting them know, hey, there's gonna be a blockade, don't even bother sending your train out. And then we had people about a mile up from where we actually created the blockade who had these like really brightly colored flags and signs that said, like, you know, blockade ahead and stuff, because we wanted to make sure that um basically that we were being safe and what we were doing and that we weren't gonna cause anything that was dangerous. Um, so with that said, while we were up on the train tracks erecting this blockade, we had about 40 people who were just down the hill from the train tracks where this um major intersection is in the town. And we had people push the buttons for the crosswalk um simultaneously so that all the sides of the traffic ended up stopping at the same time. And when that happened, we had a bunch of people run out into the middle of the intersection who were dressed in hazmat suits, and we had them roll out like a large black um tarp that was to symbolize an oil spill. And so we had these people in hazmat suits with brooms, like, you know, sort of like simulating what it would look like if they had to clean up an oil spill. And while they were doing that sort of political theater, we had people around the periphery who were walking up to the cars that were stopped at the intersection and handing them leaflets that gave information about the trains and what the dangers were, and basically letting them know what was coming through the community because at the time it was it was just not a very well-known fact that these trains were even coming through Maine. Um, and the cops that showed up, and there were a ton of them. I think there ended up being something like I don't even know. I can't even speculate. I knew it was like dozens and dozens of cops that showed up from a bunch of different towns because there was all this confusion around who had jurisdiction, um, whether it was the town police or it was state police or like railroad security. Um, so it took a while for them to figure out who actually had jurisdiction. And then once they figure that out, um the police ended up giving us an opportunity to basically um stay there for a number of hours so that we had a chance to give interviews to the media, to let the message get out. And it was amazing because um a number of different people from the community who saw what was going on and came over and read the leaflets ended up coming over and like picking up signs and actually joining what we were doing because it was their community too. It was amazing. Um, and so six opted to get arrested. And um once we did, the the police officers who arrested us actually spent the time driving us from um from where we were to the to the jailhouse, thanking us for what we were doing because they lived in the community too. Um, but of course they had to do their job and arrest us for not getting off the tracks after giving us the orders. Um and one of the really cool things that occurred was this was the first time I had ever done anything like that. Um, as a matter of fact, I actually wasn't planning to get arrested because at the time I was really low income and didn't think I would have enough money to be bailed out. Um, and once uh one of the folks who was getting arrested caught wind of that, he let me know, you know, class solidarity, like not to worry about it at all, and and they would take care of the bail. Um, so I was willing to do it. And uh so they had they had passed out all these questionnaires that like were basically for safety, asking us things like, you know, who's your contact person, what's their phone number, what medications are you on, or there any like medical situations that you have going on that that we should know about? And one of the questions asked, um, if we could have anything in the world um once we got out of jail to be present, what would it be? And just sort of like jokingly, I was like, Oh, chocolate bars and ice cream. I didn't know why they were asking this question. Um, anyway, after um getting booked and and bailed um when we came out of the jailhouse, it was probably 1.30 or so in the morning. There was a whole slew of people who had come over from the action to the jailhouse just waiting for us to be bailed out. And so when we came out, they were like ready for us, cheering and clapping and basically carrying on having this like large party in the lobby waiting for us. And um, there was somebody there who had a crock pot full of soup and all these different things, and then somebody came up to me and gave me a handful of chocolate bars and a half gallon of chocolate ice cream. Awesome. It was so cool. Um, so you know, I'm I really had this adrenaline rush and it was like this cool thing, and and I'm getting all this like wonderful feedback for it. Um and then about a week and a half later, uh one of those same trains carrying that same oil, which just for a little context, fracked oil, the way that it's extracted from the earth is different than conventional um extraction. And they actually like drill down deep into the earth using a pressurized cocktail of over I don't even know what the number is, but it's a it's a bunch of different chemicals. Um, and then the oil that they're getting in this way is like really, really thin compared to conventional oil. So they're transporting it in these train cars, um, and it's almost as thin as gasoline, which is a problem because um 10 days after we did what we did, one of those same trains ended up um there was a some kind of issue with the brake or something like that. Anyway, it it ended up derailing and flying into the center of this small town in Quebec um called Lac McGantique and exploding, and it ended up killing 50 people. Right. A bunch of those folks were never even found. I mean, they were vaporized. It was, I mean, it was like a bomb. At this point, you know, those trains are actually referred to as bomb trains because that's that's what they are. That was an intense moment because at the time that I did what I did, I did what I did thinking I was protecting waterways. Like it didn't even occur to me that this was also a risk to human life.

  Benn Marine 12:36

  Yeah, that's super real.

  Sass Linekin 12:38

  Yeah, it was it was incredible. But I did not realize that I was looking at a risk of loss of human life. And then, of course, there were all the all the thoughts that go through your head when you think, oh my god, I mean, you could basically see the train tracks from both of my kids' school. Um, so if this were to happen in that area, it would have killed my children. We ended up spending the next few months um really building a campaign around it so that it wasn't just like this one direct action. We kind of then ran with it, and we were writing letters to the editor, and we were setting up meetings with the owners of the railroad tracks, and we were holding press conferences to make sure that people knew what was going on. Um, and within a year, um, they stopped having those trains come through Maine. And so, and and I don't know if they've started to come through Maine again. Um, I actually I should probably look into it because I had heard some murmurings a few months ago that that might be the case. Um, so I'm not sure if they are now, um, but at that point, and that was in I think that was 2013, um, we played a role in helping to stop them from coming through. And so my my entrance into organizing was this incredible, you know, being pulled into this creative educational, you know, adrenaline pumping type of thing, um, where using art and using literature and being pulled in in a way where they really utilized my skills too. You know, they asked me when they came to meet with us first and to talk to us about what they were up to, you know, they were asking us questions about what we were good at and what we were excited to be doing, and then they created opportunities for us to do those things, um, which was really amazing. It allowed us to take some ownership of the project itself, and you know, it was really meaningful because we were part of the community where we were, you know, doing what we were doing. Um, so it was extremely empowering and having it, having it turn out so that what we were aiming for we got is definitely not always the story of organizing. And so I feel really blessed that that was my that was my first um impression of organizing is that you can come in, you know, meet with people who who are in your community and create, you know, create change using art and and directly making the change um by by your own actions. Um and it was so it was sexy, you know, and it was it was um heartbreaking and it was community building and it was all of these things that I came out of it really understanding as just like a person who had had no experience before that I really hold power as a human being. And it's a matter of tapping into it, and it's a matter of you know, building community and building relationships with people um where you can, you know, where you can sort of build on the things that are challenges and really um engage in the things that that are exciting to you and and that you're good at. Um I think I think all of that played a role in it being so effective in pulling me in so that it's now what I'm doing that to feed myself.

  Benn Marine 16:43

  That's amazing. And so was it an organ like was it an existing organization that was working that like kind of recruited you, or was it just like a community? Like who was kind of the the starter of that?

  Sass Linekin 16:58

  So that action was organized as a joint effort between 350 Maine and Earth First. 350 Maine being uh a climate change group, grassroots group that's you know, very they're so focused on climate change that the the name 350 is based on the idea that you can only have 350 parts per million of carbon in the atmosphere to have a livable planet. Um, and so they were the people who first came in and like did one-on-ones with us and stuff like that. And then they were working in concert with Earth First, who is this really gritty, um, amazing grassroots group that does all kinds of like direct action and civil disobedience and that kind of thing, um, for a slew of different environmental issues. Um, so it was sort of a combination of both of there was quite a bit of overlap between the two.

  Benn Marine 17:54

  Oh, that's awesome. So then from there, what what was kind of the next thing for you?

  Sass Linekin 18:02

  Um I continued to work with 350 Maine for I at that time I was a college student. Like I had said, that was that was how I actually got connected with them. Um, was the fact that they came school that I went to, um, Unity College is an environmental college. I was getting my degree in environmental um writing and media studies. And so um I continued to work with 350 Maine for the remainder of my um for the remainder of my school career. But after that action took place, there was like a core group of us who had done a lot of the organizing around it, um beyond just actually being at the action. And that core group of us ended up starting an affinity group, um, which is how we carried that campaign on, um, was this smaller affinity group. I think there was maybe like 10, 12, 14 of us or something are the ones who continued on the work where we were doing like, you know, the press conferences and the meetings with the with the railroad company and stuff like that. Um and one of the people who was a part of that ended up also being a board member of the organization that I currently work for. And um she suggested to me that I might I might be a good fit um because she felt that I was personable and I guess liked what she saw in the in the time that um that she had gotten to know me. And so uh at that point, the trajectory of my life was such that I thought I was gonna go on to graduate school and become a college professor. Um, however, I've always been somebody who's been really socially conscious and like organizing and activism was always very sexy to me. My parents are old hippies, and so I lived in a household where the idea of counterculture and like bucking back against the government was so those were key values in my home. Um, and also in my home was lots of poverty. Um, I grew up really, really poor for American standards. Um and as such, I was on the receiving end of most of the charitable things that were going on in my town and organize like I had no connection to people that were that were organizing or um event planning or anything like that. I had no idea how to get involved in stuff like that, but I always really, really wished I knew how to. And I used to show up at things like you know, when the um when the Iraq w I was at all the anti-war rallies in Boston, and I was very, very lucky um when I was like 23, my dad ended up paying for me to go to Washington DC with him to the first ACLU convention, um, which was like a fluke thing. I had never traveled or anything like that, but my grandfather had passed away and had left him a little bit of money. Um, and so he used it to bring me to this convention on the agreement that I would take what I learned there and become a thorn in the side of the government. Um, and it was amazing. Yeah, it was so cool because the timing was such that I got a chance to actually lobby against the the initial rollout of the Patriot Act, and I lobbied against the Iraq War. Um, and it it was it was a really amazing moment where I I also at one Point had the opportunity to speak in front of a large room full of people, which was something I had never done before. And I don't even remember what it was I had said, but whatever it was garnered a lot of applause. And it was this amazing, amazing feeling that just stuck with me for a really long time. But I what I took from that experience was like a somewhat a somewhat empowered feeling in that I got to go to my, you know, go to the office of my legislators and kind of speak truth to power. But once I got home, I I really didn't know where to go from there. Um and so I was not involved in any other capacity other than showing up periodically at different events that were going on or demonstrations. And so anyway, fast forward to um my school career where at this point I had been working as the or volunteering as the um one of the communication um and media team leaders for 350 Maine. I was like helping to craft messaging and do editing and stuff for their newsletter that was going out and for their social media blasts, and um anytime we had like a demonstration or an event going on, I was usually like the person wrangling the media and whatnot. And so that was pretty much the experience I had had. So when I was sort of tapped on the shoulder for the job that I have now, which is um working as the director of resources for organizing and social change, I did not enthusiastically go after the position because I really I really didn't feel qualified for it, frankly. Um, and like I said, my trajectory at that point was such that I actually thought that I was going to go on to graduate school. And so there were a number of different people who were connected to this organization, and I had never been to any of their events, um, which was a shame because at the time that I was organizing with 350 Maine, I was organizing um with this other with this other student at Unity. Um, and we both were always like complaining about how we really didn't know what we were doing, and we were just having to like stumble through. And lo and behold, the organization I work for actually hosts trainings every year for grassroots organizers, and I did not know that that existed. Um, so it's sort of kismet that I that it turned out this way. Um, anyway, uh one other thing that I was doing while I was at Unity was helping to create a chapter of the main students for climate justice on my campus. Because of the work that I was doing with main students for climate justice, um, I ended up going to something called the Generation Climate Convergence, which was a sort of like sort of like a an organizing activist um crash course workshop on like different environmental and climate issues, but also some stuff around like how to do direct action and and organize and whatnot. And I, you know, I had never attended anything like that before. Um and it just so happened to have occurred right after um I was invited to I was invited to do a workshop on how to use the media for social change at resource at my organization's event, which is called GROW. We do um an annual event, which is three days long and it's the acronym GROW stands for uh grassroots uh grassroots organizing workshops. And um so it's like just basically three days of learning, you know, skills, tactics, and strategies for organizing. And I was invited to come and do a workshop on how to use um media for social change, and um and so actually I had done that, excuse me, I had gone to Grow uh maybe maybe like a week or two before I went to this other this this climate convergence um event. And while I was at GROW, the person who founded my organization took me aside and said, Hey, um are you planning to apply for this job that we have? Um, that I had already been tapped on the shoulder by that person I was working with in the affinity group. Um and basically he told me that he had heard a lot of good things about me and he was really wondering whether or not I was considering going out for it. And at the time I still had another semester left of school, and I didn't feel qualified because I just didn't feel like I had enough organizing experience to be working for an organization that was focused on organizing. And um he ended up talking to me about how that was a bonus as far as he was concerned. Um and he also knew because I'm very upfront about my economic background, um, so he knew that I had come from a background that includes, you know, chronic homelessness and poverty. I was homeless for over six years in my younger adulthood. Um, and so he had a conversation with me about the fact that that he felt that those things were a benefit rather than a hindrance because it would allow me to bring my life experience into the work, um, which was not something I had ever, you know, I had never had anybody tell me that that the struggles that I was going through economically could be a benefit of any kind. You know, I mean it's when you grow up poor, you're basically made to believe that um that you're you're just not worth as much as the rest of the world. Um, and that likely if you're poor, it's it's gotta be because you're just a little lazier or just not quite deserving. Um, and so this was the first time I was ever hearing somebody say, yeah, you know, that's actually worth something that you have this life experience and that you can speak to some of the solutions that are needed to create equity in the world because you've been on the other side of it. Um, and that sort of, you know, kind of really got my mind thinking a little bit. And I was like, maybe I should apply for this. Um and I still didn't. And then he emailed me and was like, Are you gonna apply? Um, and so I decided, you know what, I got nothing to lose, I'll apply for it. And also, I was being sort of tapped on the shoulder by my school about a position that was opening in the development office, and I couldn't have gone to the school that I was going to without them offering me a really substantial academic scholarship. Um, so the idea of working in their um development office was exciting to me because I, you know, it was sort of like a full circle being able to give back, um, you know, helping to raise funds so that so that other people who were in my position could could get their education as well. Um and I thought this would be a good thing that I could do while I was getting myself set up for getting into um graduate school. And so when I went for my interview with the organization that I'm with right now, I went to the interview thinking, you know, um I'm probably gonna end up working for Unity College, not this organization. So I walked into it not feeling intimidated at all because I wasn't super invested. Um, and because of that, I was completely myself in the interview. I was, you know, using my fuckwords and uh just basically, you know, talking about my my um life philosophies without without feeling at all um like I needed to clam up, which typically that was always the case when I was going into a job interview because it's always been a situation where you know this is a matter of whether or not I'm gonna be able to eat. Um and because I had this other possible opportunity, I just, you know, I just kind of walked into it and it was it was my first experience and feeling confident in a space. Um, and so I did, and you know, I I interviewed for it, I left, I thought I'm probably not gonna work for them anyway, and then I ended up going to the climate convergence and seeing what it looked like, the work that Rosk does. Um, I got to sort of, I mean, and Rosk didn't organize that event, but it's very similar to other events that Rosk does, and um realized, oh my god, I could do this for the rest of my life. This is amazing. Um, and then I started really sweating it and thinking, oh shit, I am not gonna get that job. I was not professional in it, um, and was really sad about that until they contacted me and told me that um they felt like I was a good fit and they invited me in to meet with the board and um and because only like half of the board had interviewed me, so I came in and met everybody and then I left for a little while and and when I came back they um offered the job if I wanted it. And so that's what I've been doing ever since, and and I've stumbled through it greatly because of the fact that I didn't have a ton of experience. But one of the really beautiful things was that they made sure to validate me through the process by letting me know that um that it was it was in part due to my lack of experience that I was the person that they chose, um, because it gave them the opportunity to yet develop another organizer through this process, um which made me just fall in love with the organization all the more. And the more I've worked for them, the more I've realized that's really the model that that we hold. I mean, when we do like the the Grow Weekend, for instance, a lot of the people that we have facilitating the workshops don't have a ton of experience facilitating workshops, and so we're offering them the platform so they can kind of build their chops and um and so you know participants are learning, but the facilitators are learning at the same time, which is really beautiful thing.

  Benn Marine 33:40

  That is really cool.

  Sass Linekin 33:42

  Thank you. I feel like I went on and on and I don't know if I answered your question.

  Benn Marine 33:47

  No, that that was great, and it's and and I appreciate you you sharing your story because I feel like I feel like there's so much value in that. And um yeah, I don't know. And I I think I think uh there's a lot of power and showering our stories, and I think it's something that you know folks can either identify with or learn from, and it's all all super, super important. So thank you. Thank you, thank you. Um I have a question for you though, because you had mentioned when you were when you were younger wanting to be more involved with stuff, but not really knowing how, given your experience to this point, and and now with your involvement with Rosk, what advice would you give your younger self on how to get more involved?

  Sass Linekin 34:29

  Frankly, I feel like that's a really difficult question for me to answer. And the reason for that is because I think that my lack of ability to be involved was so very steeped in my class background. Um, the reason that I was able to get involved to begin with is because I went to a private school that could afford to send me to Washington, D.C. And what I got out of going to that school, while I got a wonderful education, I would say it was the networking that I did with the people that I was able to meet through the relationships that the school had that put me into the position that I'm in now. Um, I think that I would be remiss to not recognize the fact that 50% of the value of my education had to do with those relationships. And when you come from poverty, um oftentimes you don't hold the same level of relationship within the community, and you don't, I mean, it's just human nature, you don't know what you don't know. Um, and so unless I had somebody there to mentor me and tell me how to get connected, I don't know how there's anything I could have been doing differently to figure out how to get connected. Um and at this point, I you know, like I I said, the the connections that I've made and the ability to to get involved came from you know knowing someone who knew someone. And um none of the people that I knew growing up or even in my young adulthood were involved in um in organizing, they were involved in reaping the benefits of what was being organized, if that makes sense, you know, instead of instead of organizing a food drive, I was getting the food um and didn't know how to make, didn't know how to how to create relationships with the people who were providing things for me. Number one. Number two, as somebody who had grown up poor, I also was incredibly intimidated around people who held any kind of power in the community. So being able to approach somebody to figure out how to get involved is not something that I even felt comfortable to do because I felt um almost like a fangirl or something, you know, just very, very intimidated. Um, and and that's one of the beautiful things that's come out of the work of organizing that I've been doing over the last few years with my organization is that I've really um started to sit in my power when I first got into this position. I was like sweating bullets every time I was anywhere with with anyone that was like high up at all in an organization. I mean, a a lot of what I do ends up putting me into contact with people who are, you know, the directors of the organization or high up in or um you know with funders and stuff like that. Um, and so it's been this position has not only allowed me to um to do things that affect change around me, it's also profoundly impacted who I am as a person and changed my ability to see what my worth is and actually see myself as equal to other people, whether or not um, whether or not somebody's holding a higher up position that that I hold worth to, um which is not something that I felt as a younger person. Um at least at least in social situations. So that's a really difficult, a really difficult question to answer because I I just don't know. Um I really don't know what I what I could have been doing differently, other than than being able to see through the class bullshit that told me that I was less.

  Benn Marine 38:50

  Yeah, that's super real. I'm I'm curious. So for maybe organizers that are listening, what are some things that organizers can be doing to be intentionally reaching out um to poor folks, to give to give folks the opportunity to to experience those like leadership roles and those growth opportunities?

  Sass Linekin 39:14

  Well, I think I think actually inviting I think one of the more important things that I've taken away from the things I've learned from the folks on my board and the way that Larry has done the work um is not creating a project and then presenting it to, you know, you know, I'll use myself as an example. So say I'm working with people who are poor. What I don't want to do is sit down and brainstorm a project and then go to poor people and say, here's this project. Do you want to work on it? Um, because that doesn't create equity. Um, what I want to do is I want to be connecting with those folks who are poor and sitting at the table with them and creating that project together. Um because I think that's that's first of all, not only is that what builds leadership. I mean, you can always plug people in and you know, it can look, you know, you can give them some semblance of leadership by handing them a microphone, but there's so much more power in in them actually being at the table from the beginning and creating the solutions. And when it comes down to it, you know, we we live in a society that whose entire framework was created by one demographic, and that demographic is affluent um affluent white guys. Um, but there was nobody at the table when they were um when they were putting together the the constitution and the bill of rights. I would, you know, people who who want to argue that we're not living in a supremacist culture, I would challenge them to say, you tell me what black person, what indigenous person, what trans person, what poor person, um, you know, who was at that table making those laws. You know, there was there was one group. And so we're living in a framework that is suited to one group of people, even though we're sharing real estate with all kinds of different people. Um and so unless the people who have been um marginalized by the system are actually at the table in the inception of um of the change that's being made, then there's gonna be a problem at the root anyway. I mean, it's not you have to be practicing equity in the way that you're doing your work for the work to create equity, in my opinion. Um, so so I would say, you know, if you're if you're an organizer and you're out there listening and you're wondering how to how to help create empowered positions for people that you want to help, you know, it's it's about it's about not just inviting them into your process, but actually building relationships with them, you know, showing up at their efforts and and meeting them where they're at, and um and really being cognizant of the fact that it's the people who are being impacted by the things that we're working on who know the solutions, you know, having trust in the people's lived experiences as holding as much value as somebody else's college degree.

  Benn Marine 43:09

  Thank you so so much, Sass. This has been incredible and amazing, and I and I really appreciate your time. Is there anything else you wanted to add or make sure folks knew about?

  Sass Linekin 43:20

  We have the youth activism gathering coming up, I believe in June. We still don't have a date fully nailed down because we're still kind of searching around for a venue, but that's three days of uh workshops on things from social issues to organizing skills to cool shit like punk shows and bake offs. Um and it's really cool because it's completely youth led. Um, the the we call it the YAG. Um, this is gonna be the 19th year of it, and it is it's probably my favorite thing that I help to organize every year because. It's youth-led. All the you know, it's organized almost primarily by youth. The workshops are facilitated almost exclusively by young people. You know, it's three days of popular education with young people teaching other young people, you know, skills um on how to change the world. So, um, and I just find it to be to be brilliant because one of the coolest things about working with young people is that they're not stuck in a certain way of doing things, they're really willing to be creative and to think outside the box, and they they still believe in the ability to change stuff, which is beautiful. And I'm so glad that they feel that way because working with young people, which I do on a fairly regular basis, because I also facilitate a um uh drop-in for LGBTQ youth every week. Um, so I get to sit with youth a lot and kind of hear their philosophies and and their outlooks on life, and it's um it's a wonderful thing because these kids these days, and and I work with a lot of young organizers, but the kids that come to my drop-in are not organizers and activists, they're just queer and trans. Um, and by just I guess, well, the point here is these are not kids who are like super steeped in the social change culture. They're just kind of living their lives and looking for a safe space to find community. And in the conversations that I'm having with them, by and large, I'm finding that the majority of the youth today have an analysis that I didn't have until I was in my 30s. Um, even kids who are coming from homes that are pretty conservative based on the things that they're telling me still have like a really rich understanding of what it means to hold privilege. Um, which I mean, that on its own, to be able to see an equity in that way at that age is a world away from what it was like when I was that young. Um, so I'm really excited to see what happens within the next 20 years or so because these kids aren't even in the seats of power yet. Um, and they are connected to, you know, they're they're connected to people all over the world because of the internet, which is something we didn't have when I was their age. And I think that it really has given the ability to kind of like break out and see somebody else's experience. So it's not so easy to just um disregard things like exploitation of labor around the world or um, you know, violent colonization and stuff. These things are becoming part of the vernacular in that generation because you know, memes tell the story ever so quick. And, you know, depending on your algorithms on your social media, you're like constantly sort of hearing about these different things that are going on in the world, which is um which is giving me a lot of hope. Um, because if there, if if there is a wake at 14, 15 years old, is I didn't get until I was in my 30s, it's like there's that paradigm shift is is occurring, whether or not we can see it yet.

  Benn Marine 47:36

  This week. Uh, I do have in the show notes the links to ROSC and the YAG conference, so be sure to check those out. Just oceanoforganizing.com forward slash episode 11. That's one one. And thank you. I appreciate you. If you have any feedback, I'd love to hear it. Head on over to the website, click on that little feedback button, let me know what you think. Love to know how I can serve you better. Thank you. I appreciate you. Be well.