Urban Farming & Food Justice with Chris Perez

May 23, 2019

In this episode, Benn talks with Chris Perez, an urban farmer and community organizer, about the winding path that took them from social justice activism to growing food. A friend's blunt question — "you have a lot of opinions, but what are you actually doing?" — pushed Chris to apprentice on a farm in Portland, Maine, with no prior agricultural experience. From there, Chris fell into garden-based youth education, first in Maine and later in Los Angeles, where they worked with Korean, Black, and Mexican youth to build gardens that reflected each community's own crops and culture.

Chris breaks down common misconceptions about urban farming (it's not just about growing weed, and it's rarely as easy as tossing seeds in a box), and talks through what real community accountability looks like when organizing food justice projects — meeting people where they are, building sustainable community ownership instead of relying on one person to do all the growing, and reckoning with the history and stigma tied to fieldwork in communities of color.

The conversation also covers Chris's most rewarding moments (soil restoration and watching kids get excited about dirt), the LA Food Policy Council, and resources for anyone wanting to get started: WWOOF (Worldwide Opportunities on Organic Farms), the book Restorative Agriculture, and free Coursera courses including the University of Tel Aviv's plant biology class. Chris closes by sharing their next chapter — heading to Italy to study agroecology and local food systems.

SHOW NOTES

Chris Perez is an urban farmer and food justice advocate. Their passion is supporting and building sustainable food systems in their communities. Chris comes from a background of organizing for LGBTQ rights and racial justice organizing and has applied that experience to their gardening and community building around food and working with youth. Chris shares with us how you can get started in growing your own food, and how to feed your spirit through maintaining hope for our future. 

One of the largest gatherings of progressive organizers in the country, be sure to check out the Netroots Nation Conference if you are able and swing by booth 113 to say hello!

Chris’ Fundraiser – If you want to help support Chris and their next chapter, check out this link to find their facebook fundraiser.

The book that Chris mentioned is Restoration Agriculture by Mark Shepard and you can find it on amazon by clicking here.

Chris mentioned the vast sea of courses you could dive into on Coursera, and in their messages to me afterwards they shared these top three courses as a recommendation for a place for folks to get started.

Understanding Plants Part I: What a Plant Knows

Agriculture, Economics and Nature

Discover Best Practice Farming for a Sustainable 2050

If you’re looking to get your hands dirty and learn more about farming, WWOOFing is a great way to do that. The World Wide Opportunities on Organic Farms connects volunteers to over 2,096 different organic farms world wide and your room and board during your stay is on the house. Check out WWOOF for more information, or see this video below.

• Transcript

  Benn Marine 0:40

  So we have to advocate for our data.

  Chris Perez 1:38

  I've been involved in activism associated really sort of a lot with the day rights movement. And it's always been inspired to health people. But it's always like there's just something has to be in the world, like constantly. And one thing that I find that would be is really important and very universal is food. Everyone needs to eat. And we can always come on the table together and really like have fountain conversations. And I I just always felt like food was a very fundamental key to existence. So it stems from a lot, a lot of big thinking. I wanted to do something that could not just affect one group of people, but affect all people, which is like a very like big mission for like a young person to take on. It's like, how do I make the biggest impact possible? But it really I and I really felt like food could do that because I don't know, I just like learned a lot through growing things, and I got really interested in it from just volunteering uh through local organizations. I got my start in Portland, Maine actually. And um from there I just looking and it was just like seeing our relationship to nature, seeing what seeds do for us, the power of just the seed alone, how it can like create meals for people. And then from that through the life cycle of the plant, it could actually even go to more seeds and continue the cycle, you know, the cycle of giving. And it really like reframed my way of thinking. And so I felt like the way to give most is by just learning more about food and being more directly involved with food and learning from the source directly, and that's soil. And I've been doing lots of uh soil work, and that's been my main focus within the work that I've been doing.

  Benn Marine 3:54

  That's awesome. And how so how did you make that transition? So you you it sounds like you had this like aha moment, like food is at the root of a lot of these things, and and how do you how did you translate that into actually like literally getting your hands dirty and and digging in?

  Chris Perez 4:11

  Well, um, to be honest with you, I had a lot of arguments with friends. And we would always argue about like different things going on in the world. And one of my friends said to me, I'll never forget this, she said, Chris, you have a lot of opinions, but what are you actually doing? And like that was such a thumb. And I was like, you know what, what am I doing? And it really led me to like kind of reflect on the world that we live in and what I could be doing. And so I that very summer I actually like stopped from the city I was living in in Port Semaine to do this apprenticeship on a farm. I've never farmed, I've never done anything like this in my life, but for some reason, something was just telling me to stick out my thumb and go north, like go north and learn about something. And it was really just intuition and following a gut, a literal gut, um, because I just felt as though it's it you know, it's gonna sound happy, but I just like felt like driven by something outside of myself to check this out and like just learn about food. Because I and um I started, I got my star and I loved goat cheese, but like I didn't know anything about goats, you know. Like I was I I just didn't grow up with that kind of like rural agriculture background. My dad grew food, but we never had like animals to take care of, you know, and I was just curious on like how how how how it all how it all manifested. So I I'm it was really just a strike of curiosity that like led me to see farms, and then it was like feeding goats every day and watching them graze and like milk, milking them and like making cheeses with their milk and like really understanding like the whole process. And it was like one of like and goat cheese was like one of my favorite foods possible, you know? And it was really cool to like know the animal and like understand where it all actually was coming from, and that really like just sparked an interest because it was really like a little fire that lit, and it's just like, oh, I need to I want to know more about this. Like, I would like to know more about where things come from, and not only that, but like also teach people about where things come from because I feel like especially within our culture, um, we have we're very we're American society is incredibly privileged to have every good food available to us constantly. But because of that, it's really like led to us to easily take it for granted, and we also like lose sight of where it comes from. Um, and I really got I really wanted to be more actively involved in just like helping, especially youth reconnect to where things come from. Because as I was an as an adult, like I was like in my early 20s and I was relearning all this stuff again, and it had such an big impact on me. And I was like, if we can talk, if we can just like teach this as common knowledge, like our society or even global foods could look vastly different. So it's a big answer to your question. Um, but yeah, just for the light spark.

  Benn Marine 7:36

  Um, because you you had mentioned uh like wanting to work with youth. Yeah, and so um it sounds like you you kind of got an opportunity to do that. What what was that like?

  Chris Perez 7:46

  So initially I had a little bit of a dread about working with youth, um, just because I've never really worked with kids before. And after the first day, we were playing in the dirt, and it was honestly the greatest joy of my life was just like getting dirty with like little kids who are like equally as excited about bugs as me. It was just a huge eye-opener. Like whatever, I don't even know why I was afraid. I think it's just like when you're a kid, I don't know. Just we I feel like as adults, we also lose a relationship with children if they're not like in our immediate lives. But like honestly, it really just like changed my frame of thinking. And they were so curious and asked such good questions, and they noticed things that like I wasn't noticing at first. So, like their relationship really actually like an enthusiasm really helped blossom and nourish this like relationship I already had with nature because it was like we were like exploring it all together, you know, and it's there's something like really beautiful about a child's curiosity and just so damn hopeful, you know. Um, it was just a really beautiful, like beautiful way to like look at the world again. And um, so I went from being a volunteer with cultivating community, and they actually um ended up hiring me as a garden uh garden youth educator, and I did that for about a year and for a few different schools, and I just absolutely fell in love with the work, um learning so much about plants by through just teaching and by like experimenting, and like the kids and I really grew together. Like that sounds really cheesy, but we really did, and it really just helped blossom this spark of curiosity that I had in just planting things, like just seeing them be so interested and have such good questions, like really just made my lessons even like 10 times better and really like pulled my personal interest like back in. It was it gave me an excuse to like study this stuff more and be really excited about it. Um, and I took that energy um here to LA and I got made fun of a lot for it because the youth here I was working with is a little bit older. I worked with a lot of high school students and middle school students, and they thought of me as really nerdy. Um, because I was like this like black blue-haired woman who like was just like teaching them about plants, you know, and just pointing out like bugs and getting really excited about things. But enthusiasm is like hiccups, it just rubs off on people. And I think that they were just they just received the the the um the stuff really well, and it was really cool to like have this opportunity to show them a completely different way of looking at the world, and not only that, but they can also be a member of changing the world too, because we what what um the programs that we started doing, um I actually veered away from the OG um uh lesson plan. And um I just started like because I, you know, I was just getting there's this expression know your audience, and I just felt like I wasn't getting really well received by like this like blabbering off stuff from like a piece of paper, but I really wanted to show them what I was talking about. And one thing that um we really just got involved with was was like changing our environment and like what that genuinely means, like plant a seed. It actually like means that you're creating space for a plant to grow, and not only that, but like you're a part of changing your ecosystem, you're introducing new different bugs, you're introducing different types of birds and really showing them that like we are a part and take part in changes every day, but and like even planting a seed can just be like a radical form of just like changing the world around you, and just like we have that capability, despite in the metaphor. I mean, be it in this metaphor of the seed, or be it in anything that we want to do, it's literally just like recognizing that there's power in our physical hands, and that was just that like that just we connected on this like different world, and it just like made the work just like 10 times more meaningful because yeah, I was teaching kids like this is about pollination, this is where a seed comes from, but like showing them a dead plant, then collecting things and then bringing forth life from it, like that was so like it's such a trip. Like, people don't think about life after like life after death, you know, or that death brings forth life. And it was so cool to be like, actually, this may look dead, but these are actually like the seeds for new life. And everything has this potential, you know, it's just recognizing this potential for change. And it was really cool to like work with work with youth because they are literally the keys for change, you know. I really think that like children are really the champions for change. Um, and we just have to like fuel that and like continue to remind them of their personal power. You know, one thing that like I yeah, anyway, I'm sorry, I'm giving such a big answer.

  Benn Marine 13:40

  I support you.

  Chris Perez 13:41

  Keep keep trucking. Uh I do this thing where um that my my partner called me out on it. He's like, Chris, you explain things so big.

  Benn Marine 13:55

  Well, and I think that that big picture is really important, right? Because I think that I think so often we get, you know, we get kind of so focused on our lane with our blinders on and just like I just gotta get through what's right in front of me, and then tomorrow I gotta do it. You know what I mean? That it's I think it's really easy to lose sight of that like bigger picture. So I think that's great. I think it's great to be able to frame things in that way and to be able to kind of like you know, challenge all of us to like think outside ourselves. If you will. So I I support you. You you do you. You do you.

  Chris Perez 14:28

  Appreciate it, appreciate it.

  Benn Marine 14:31

  Thinking about like urban uh gardening and um, and like cultivating community. How like what are some of the biggest like misconceptions of that? Like like when you tell somebody like, oh, you know, I do uh you know this kind of work, like what are like what are like if there was one thing that you could just tell everybody like this is the thing, is there like a common misconceived piece of that?

  Chris Perez 14:57

  Well, I live in Los Angeles, so as soon as I say urban farming, people think I grow weed. And it's not just about that. Um that's like probably the biggest misconception, but that's because I come from I'm I'm living in an area where that's really important to people. Um and yeah, I guess. Um, but um I think another common misconception is that it's easy. Um, that you can just build a box and that you should build a garden box and introduce plant life regardless. I think that it does take a little bit of um of research and um practice. I don't I I'm not saying that like not everyone should garden. I definitely think that the more people, the more garden boxes we have, the better. But I do think that oftentimes what happens is people build a garden box and they'll buy soil from Home Depot and they'll throw seeds in or they'll put in transplants and then they'll get upset that it doesn't work out right away, you know. And I think that um one thing that I'd like to remind people is life takes time. Um, it is not an instantaneous fix. Gardening comes I've learned the most through all the mistakes that I've made. And that if you are going to build a garden, don't give up because something does poorly, you know. Um, take really try to use your eyes as a tool. People always talk about the green thumb. I really think it's more of an observation skill. I really think it's more, it's it's not one of those things that comes naturally to everybody. I mean, I've been doing this for like several years, and it's still, I feel like, you know, I I mess up all the time. And I think that it really comes from patience and studying what your plants are telling you because there's little things that plants tell us by just paying attention to their signals. Like a droopy plant means something, you know, like a droopy plant most likely means that it's not getting enough water, or a brown leaf means that, you know, it's been scorched out, or it's been or it's going through a vitamin deficiency. But like I really think that like taking the time and really paying attention to the cues of the plant and not just like yanking it out of the ground and giving up, but really challenging yourself by trying to actually take care of something because plants have the like this m like are flipping magic. They have this amazing power to restore themselves, but we as stewards really have to listen listen and look for the cues. It's not an easy thing to just jump in on, but I do think that I would like for more people to give it a try and give it an honest try. Like don't necessarily give up because your tomatoes look like crap or they're not coming out right away. But like really and talk to people, talk to people who grow food. Like, I think that that's a big one is just have like finding other mentors to ask questions with. But I think a a big misconception is like that it's easy, it's really not. Um, but it but it's super rewarding. It's and it takes time, and that little bit of time will really re remind you about how like remarkable life really is. Um because granted, a plant takes about approximately two months, three months to grow. That might seem a long time to do for directly from seed, but think about how long human maturation takes. It takes 25 years for us to mature. And a plant giving off fruit in like less than a year, that's remarkable. And we really just need to like genuinely like slow down our frame of thinking and really like take the time with it and listen to the cues that nature gives us. I think that um it's there's a misconception that like you know uh I think of just like, oh, well, you know, it's just so easy. I just bought a plant and I put it in. But like oftentimes, like when especially when you're buying a trans from plant from transplants, that plant was in a truck for a really long time and hasn't gotten a lot of sun for a really long time, and then you're like completely shocking its, its, um, its body by like putting it in immersive amount of light. Like it's it's really like just taking the time and like studying the cues of the things around you and being very gradual with it. Um yeah, and I but I do think that everyone should at least try it if you have the capability. Um, I don't think I don't I also understand like there's people who have lives, children, things to do, um, and not everyone can have the capacity to grow their own food. But like if you can grow a succulent or just like see something outside of within nature grow, I think that it's just always a really cool thing to see and just observe and learn from because there's so much that we can learn from it, even from ourselves.

  Benn Marine 20:25

  Yeah, that's that's super real. Um and and in that in terms of like capacity, and and maybe folks don't have the the capacity to have a you know their own garden at at home, if you will. But I think kind of that like building community piece and even those like community gardens. I'm curious how has because I know that you've done a lot of organizing even out outside of this realm, like with racial justice and social justice issues. Uh how has some of that organizing informed what you're doing now? And do you have any tips for folks that maybe are thinking about uh you know starting starting a community garden or or how to kind of potentially organize around that?

  Chris Perez 21:06

  Um my well, I think my biggest tip is holding community accountability and yourself accountable to the community. One thing that um especially when you're when um you're a grower and you're growing for the community. There's um as someone who grows plants, I'm interested in lots of plants and I'm interested in seeing lots of things grow. Um and one thing that what's really interesting about working in LA is how culturally diverse we are and how um and how that could really actually like lend to interesting um community organizing. Is for example, um one of the gardens that I worked out out here, um we worked with Korean youth, um, black youth, and Mexican youth, and we We had gardens and and they all brought in like plants of their culture, and everyone got to try different things from all over the world, which is absolutely remarkable. And I think that's like the way the food system like even works, is how our food system has evolved so much is from multiculturalism. Um, but I do think that like there's such a strong um element and potential for community organizing, but I really think that it's important to be accountable for the community that you're growing for and growing in, um, and being mindful of their needs and also your your environmental needs as well. So it takes it takes us, it takes a level of like cultural sensitivity and um really understanding where and and really meeting what people where they're at. For example, um when I would when um I started out here, we were growing all sorts of like wild greens, you know, like just things you don't see at a grocery store. But the thing about the things that you don't see at a grocery store, as remarkably nutritious as it can be, and you know, the potential that these plants have for people, you're also you're also trying to introduce it to a very sensitive audience, and you want to be mindful about like how one introduces new crops. You want to meet people where they're at and not like try to um force too much, not like force them into your frame of thinking. But I really think that it's important to meet people where they're at and then grow together rather than like because oftentimes, especially with the organic foods movement, there's there almost seems like this like belittling of the GMO foods grown at grocery stores. And it's like, no, like we need to we need to not frame frame things as like one type of food is better than another type of food, but we really like need to just talk about like creating local food systems. Um, but I do think that like it stems from mostly um just com like being accountable for the community that you're working with, talking to the community that you're working with, knowing the community's needs, what they'd like to see, and and and then like really building that space out. Because, you know, here I can grow like uh, you know, here I can grow like chayote and like okra and um shoshido, but like for some communities, they they they want to see like you know, just different types of crops grown, things that are more familiar to them. Like they want to see like carrots or onions and things like that. So it's like really just like understanding the population, their needs, and meeting people's needs where they're at. I think that's like the biggest thing is like talk to people about what they want first and then build it. Never build with the assumption that you know better than the population that you're serving. Be accountable to your community. I think that's the biggest thing that I'm gonna say over and over again is just be accountable for your community because like oftentimes when nonprofits come in and they'll like be like, hey, we have this great solution to your problem that you didn't know you're having, blah, blah, blah. It's like, no, like really create community solutions. Don't belittle the community that you're serving, you know what I mean? But it's really having them be a part of building the space, taking out crops, and also like planning out what the space even looks like, you know. So I think that community involvement major. How do you get the community involved? Talk to people, especially when you're outside. Like I've been very fortunate enough to like, you know, just have people like see me carrying a bunch of plants, and I'm like, hey, and we just start talking, you know, and I think that talking to your neighbors and getting their interests and like because everyone eats food, you know, everyone needs food. So it's just like really figuring out like, okay, where is our community? What do we need? And um, how can we grow this together?

  Benn Marine 26:20

  So I with that, I'm curious. What do you think are the like biggest challenges in organizing around food justice?

  Chris Perez 26:26

  I think the biggest challenge in organizing around food justice is um sustainability for projects, um, oftentimes and and really having the community be the forerunner of keeping the project sustainable. Um I've worked in plenty of nonprofits as the food producer, and I shouldn't have been the sole food producer. I think that it should be a community-involved project for those who are interested in growing food and um keeping and keeping not like you know, I talked about community accountability and being accountable for your community, but also keeping your community accountable to their needs as well. I think that um one of that's probably the biggest challenge is maintaining a relationship with space and not having it just one person, but really having it be more of like a co-opted responsibility rather than one person sowing all the seeds, harvesting all the seeds, because that's not a sustainable system of growing food. That's not, you know, that's not that's never going to work if we don't work together, you know, and if we're not coming, and if the folks who are interested aren't, you know, committing to themselves for literally free food, you know, it's free food. Um, but I think that especially working in communities of color, it particularly forms a challenge because we've been the sowers of seeds, we've been the ones picking and harvesting all the food. Why should we have to do this all over again? And I feel like there's a there's been a stigmatization of working the fields, quote unquote, that you know has really kind of coincided with with um growing food, you know. It's like, well, you know, I why do I need to be the sowers of the seeds again? My people have been doing this for centuries, you know, and like why do we need to continuously be the ones making this change? But at the same time, when it comes to creating a local food system, I think it should be the people who live in the communities and also who are of the communities doing that. Because when you have outsiders come in, that's also a form of a way that like, you know, programs don't sustain. You know, it's like outsiders come in, they try to make they try to fix this problem that you know they think that you have, and they don't, but you know, they go home, they drive home like you know, 45 minutes away every night, and then they come back. And it's just like, I don't know, there's just like a a level of like um disconnection that the that folks have when you're an outsider coming into this, and rather than being a community like a community member. So I think that the biggest challenge is really like keeping community members involved. And I think honestly, it's it's because like oftentimes they're not um seeing the immediate um the immediate um but of the they're not seeing immediate fruits, you know, and it's a waiting process. And I think that like unfortunately we live in a society that has us like all working like for instant gratification, but I but so I do think that it also takes like a little bit of a societal shift to help people slow down. I think capitalism plays a big part in it, in just how people are, you know, forced to work in the system and um they don't really have time to do to work within their communities. Um, so yeah, there's a lot of challenges, but I do I but I am optimistic. I'm optimistic every day, you know. Um maybe it's like blind foolishness, but I do I'm trying to think of ways that and just being innovative of just getting people involved, and primarily with food, it's a little bit easier because there's food involved. So, like, you know, as soon as you can like really reap from the garden, I think that it helps bring people in together, but it's really keeping and sustaining that interest that's been the biggest challenge.

  Benn Marine 31:03

  That eternal optimism. Well, I I'm curious, what have been like your favorite and most rewarding moments?

  Chris Perez 31:09

  Oh my god, there's so many. There are so many. My favorite moments making dirt with children. Um, that's like and really showing them like what because in Maine, we're really for you know, you're you're really fortunate to have soil, but in California out here, we have clay soil. So it was really cool to show them that dirt can like evolve and grow, and like dirt is also really cool, and like building soil together, that's been so cool. Like soil restoration, coolest thing I think I've ever done. And like really seeing environmental ecological changes just brilliant, and having youth be a part of that change, like and them be so excited about it, you know, and they get it because they're still growing, and they have a little bit more patience than some adults do. It's it's quite interesting to see that. Like, and so like working with children and working with youth have been a huge part of my optimism and the conversations that I've had with like teenagers. Wow, you know, like they are so woke in what's going on and just like really aware of the um the like our global food system, and not only that, but like a lot of the youth I was like my uh high school students I was working with, they understand the health disparities that coincide with it, and really trying to like be like be forerunners of like helping change their community by like coming up with creative solutions. The program that I was working at um prior to, it was actually started because youth thought it was important to begin doing work within the community throughout surrounding food justice. So youth always, it's like they're they're I don't know, they give me hope in society is like seeing young people actually care about things. Um, that's remarkable, you know, and not because like some someone told them to or they were gonna get extra credit, but like genuinely because they just want to see the world a better place. And the moments with it like that have really just really just lit up my life. Like just and you know, they're still kids, they mess up, they make mistakes, but like knowing that their heart is there and like being able to talk and have some of like the most like interesting, intelligent conversations with young people, like that has really been just so cool. And I see the revolution happening in their hands. We do. I I'm so in awe by young people. Um, and and I'm optimistic about them. And because like because of their energy, it's literally like helps me kind of push forward, like to make steps in my life to make changes. Um and I do see changes happening in our in our society. You know, people are talking about food and where food comes from, and that it's because there's there's a more of a there's a light mindfulness that comes around with it. I mean, it's it's gonna take a while for you know our local food economy to completely shift, but there is a movement happening. There's a and um here in LA, we have um the uh LA Food Policy Council, and it's literally a whole council of community members coming up together and creating laws surrounding food, and that is just like the coolest thing to be a part of, and to see like everyday people being in charge of policy, that gives me so much hope, you know, and and having people be involved in this con these conversations. I am feeling immensely optimistic every time I'm in meetings and spaces like that, and seeing, you know, people care, talking to strangers like I um the invention of Lyft is quite interesting because it gives you an opportunity to talk to people you never really get a chance to. You share space with people you never really get a chance to, and I try to sneak in this stuff all the time every time I talk to somebody, and the level of consciousness that we've arisen as a collective, amazing. I can't believe where we're at, you know. People have given me like so much hope. Um, plants have given me so much hope. The the um the fact of the matter, like here um in in California, like there have been plant species that were extinct that are coming back to life and like taking over, and like I don't know, there's for for every I mean, dude, there's so many reasons to be optimistic, um, which is great, you know, because there's also a lot of reasons to to be down, but um I I'm inspired by life. So that's a big, big, big, big one.

  Benn Marine 36:36

  Um, and and I I feel like every every every bit of uh in terms of uh career for folks that are represented in the community around. Are there recommended or are there different organizations either locally or nationally that folks could be following?

  Chris Perez 37:03

  My the the biggest thing that really helped me get involved in agriculture was just getting my hands dirty. Um and woofing worldwide opportunities on organic farms is the best education one could ever ask for. Um, well, we'll see. I'm actually about to go to school. Um, but um, it's one of the best educations the world could ask, like someone could in interested in this field could ask for. It gives you hands-on direct experiences on growing food. Um, it's been that is an amazing resource to just like learn from different places. Um there is uh, I mean, it really depends on where you are too, because environments, um, you know, you just grow things differently in different climates. So um it's really just like learning about your climate and um and different organizations that are happening. I literally just Googled food justice when I was living in Portland, Maine, and I found a cultivating community and I just volunteered. I think volunteerism is uh also a really good skill to like just help you get in with things and get a sense of what the work that's being done looks like. I think direct hands-on is the best, but a really great book um I would recommend is Um Restorative Agriculture. It's an amazing book. Um, I I can't remember the author's name right now. Um, but it's an amazing book, uh, restorative agriculture. It talks a lot about um restorative agricultural design, focuses on building soil and um their and also using uh animals as a uh as in their role in permaculture and uh agricultural design. Um online there's uh amazing classes um through this website called Coursera.com. Oh, I want to make sure of that because I recommend Coursera all the time. But um Coursera is quite incredible. There's free university level classes that you can take. Um, I took courses on plant biology and farming, and one of my favorite classes I took was through the University of Tel Aviv called Wanna Plant Knows, and those courses are uh available for free, and it's some of the best education you can get. It's also very interactive because there's um forums that you can talk to the professors who have open hours on, and then you can also talk to other students who are taking the classes online. So, Coursera, um their classes are absolutely amazing. Uh, I learned a lot through that um as well. But hands-on experience, could not recommend it more. Just plant a seed, watch it.

  Benn Marine 40:05

  I'll be there to find out the links to the book and it's a bit different. Okay, okay, okay. Tell us about your next adventure, your identity. Tell us all about it.

  Chris Perez 40:31

  I am, I am. So I'm about to embark on um education. Um, so I've as I mentioned, um, hands-on learning is the best form of learning. And um I've been learning primarily through through um work experience, but I haven't had a mentor in a really long time. And that, and um, you know, I've just been feeling a little bit stagnant in my first growth and development. I'm seeing all these kids grow and they're going to college, and I'm just like really inspired by them taking their steps in life. And I'm I'm 31, you know, I can still, there's still room for this one to grow too. Um, so I started doing some research in international program because our food systems is it's our our our global food system is suffering a lot through um monocropping, um, which is the um the basically the farming of one crop and industrializing one type of plant and then selling that as like a mass uh a mass sales. Um but within that prep process, it's just essentially industrialized agriculture. Um and that is not only just affecting America, but it's affecting um places all over the world. I spent some time in South America and it was and I learned a lot about how Monsanto is harming a lot of land that is super precious, um, rainforest land and um jungles and a lot of precious land that are being are in um quite quite a crisis at the moment because of global industrialization of food. So um me being a research geek, um, I wanted to find a program where people were coming together from all over the world to talk about this. And I happen to find this program in Italy, and um, it's an international program uh taught in English, which I'm super privileged, and we're very privileged to like be an English-speaking country and that English is our primary language. But um anyway, um so but I'm super privileged to like join 30 other people from um internationally coming together, and we're going to be studying essentially the um agroecology, the uh ecos, the ecosystems within agriculture that we can develop and grow, as well as um formulating food, uh food, like formulating um food systems and and uh hopefully creating local food economies and really shifting the way our framework of food. I chose Italy primarily because of how they grow food, um, and also there's just a very rich history in uh Italian agriculture, and that's one thing that they've never really um let get industrialized in the same way that they that we have here. Um, I mean, there's still you know effects of industrial agriculture everywhere, but there's there's just an integrity in um in local food and local food system there's no more local food systems. specialize than in Italy. Like every part of the area has a different thing that they're specializing because of the climate that they're growing in. So that was a big pull to Italy was to just learn from learn from a place that does a local food system right. And I'd like to bring that back to the States and really kind of encourage that kind of continued development. But yeah, Italy, PHNs I'm very, very, very excited. Petrified but excited. I'm only petrified because you know I've never left the country to do something like this and I'm leaving everything that's comfortable. But I think it's really important to leave what you know sometimes. I mean I did that when I left Maine in order to grow. Um but hopefully the soil will accept my roots you know and then I can kind of settle in and really absorb all I can.

  Benn Marine 45:01

  That's awesome. Well I'm really excited for you and your next chapter and um also I'm going to make sure to link to your fundraiser too to kick you off.

  Chris Perez 45:11

  Thank you.

  Benn Marine 45:12

  Yeah. Uh so if folks are interested in in supporting Chris uh Chris in their next kind of chapter uh be sure to check out the show notes and um help help support. Any other last thought?

  Chris Perez 45:26

  Um I think a big one is just no matter what, just don't give up. There's a lot in our world that is really heavy and that leaves you know a st that we rely on especially in our day to day um but I really want to emphasize just never give up. I think it's really important that we take these challenges as lessons. Failures are lessons. I've messed up in planting so many times I've messed up in life so many times but I really think that like you know hard hard times are probably never gonna go away but I think it's really important to stay strong and stay optimistic and remember the light that we have you know I really think it's just so super clutch to to try to remain a little bit light and enjoy the things that you really enjoy your family, your friends, you know, your dogs, your cats, whomever your birds um but whomever but I really think that it's important to like just not give up really like the challenges we're gonna see like we're gonna see loads of challenges in this life. I've had nothing but hard times um in the past and and really it it shaped who I am you know and I really think that we could either become defeated or we can become stronger. And I think that it's really important that we just stay true to ourselves and that we keep our feet on the ground and stay here. And if you need a moment to just take a break, take a break. It's really important to take care of yourself but don't give up don't give up.

  Benn Marine 47:17

  Awesome well thank you so much Chris it's this has been great thank you so much for tuning in this week. During the interview Chris had mentioned Coursera and in following up afterwards they actually selected their top three favorite online courses for folks interested in learning more about urban agriculture, food justice and getting started. I've linked to all those resources and courses and also the Netroots Nation conference details in the show notes which you can find at oceanoforganizing.com. If you are enjoying this podcast please subscribe wherever you listen and leave a review. It helps us rank higher which helps other folks like yourself find this content. Thank you. I appreciate you be well